Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: daniel1212
It indeed was derived, via Latin, yet even a Catholic forum will tell you that “the Latin word presbyter has no lingual or morphological relationship with the Latin word sacerdos, but only an inherited semantical relationship.”

I never said that it did.

Instead presbuteros became priest under the premise that the primary function of NT pastors was that of engaging in the "sacrifice" of the mass, an imposed functional equivalence that the Holy Spirit did not make by ever titling presbuteros/epsicopos (one office: Titus 1:5-7) hiereus,

You have it backwards. The word "priest" came into existence in English as the equivalent to presbuteros not hiereus. It was the lack of an English equivalent to hiereus that caused "priest" to be used also for hiereus. I will admit that this was helped by the identification of the sacrificial role of the presbuteros with that of the hiereus. But what you should then be complaining about is the use of "priest" for non-Christian sacrificial ministers rather than its use for presbuteros which was its original use. That being said, this confusion of terms only exists in English. Catholic theology developed in Latin and Greek were the distinction of the two terms were kept. The Catholic understanding of the office of priest was not determined by the usage in English.

56 posted on 11/19/2014 5:12:19 PM PST by Petrosius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies ]


To: Petrosius; daniel1212; Springfield Reformer
You have it backwards. The word "priest" came into existence in English as the equivalent to presbuteros not hiereus. It was the lack of an English equivalent to hiereus that caused "priest" to be used also for hiereus

Horsefeathers!

It is YOU who has it ---- SIDEWAYS!!!

And that sideways-ness -- can be traced to Jerome's Latin translation of Greek NT texts.

Once we return again to Greek texts the fog of confusion can be dispelled.

If that be not enough, then going to Hebrew usage nails the matter.

Being that there are Greek, Hebrew, and Latin words for "priest" which DO NOT equate to presbuteros, there is no excuse for cramming in the word "priest" in present day English translation, as substitution for the word presbyter.

The literal meaning of the presbyter, in English language, is not "priest", but elder.

Where as ἱερεύς OR hiereús translates more directly to the English word "priest".

Hebrew = כָּהַן, kahan or kohen = priest (in English).

daniel, & S.R. -- please forgive me for jumping in here, for my own interjection at this juncture may render portion of either of your own possible further comments or rebuttal partially repetitious.

58 posted on 11/19/2014 8:29:54 PM PST by BlueDragon (whoopsie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies ]

To: Petrosius; Springfield Reformer; BlueDragon
You have it backwards. The word "priest" came into existence in English as the equivalent to presbuteros not hiereus. It was the lack of an English equivalent to hiereus that caused "priest" to be used also for hiereus.

Which was because presbuteros became to be titled "priests" before there even was an English translational.

I will admit that this was helped by the identification of the sacrificial role of the presbuteros with that of the hiereus.

But NT pastors are not manifest as having a uniquely sacrificial function.

But what you should then be complaining about is the use of "priest" for non-Christian sacrificial ministers rather than its use for presbuteros which was its original use.

Not so as the Holy Spirit even calls pagan sacrificial ministers "hiereus:"

Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. (Act 14:13)

We should never complain about what the Spirit chooses for words, nor change the distinction He can make by them. And hiereus was NEVER used for presbuteros in the NT!

And as all believers engage in offering sacrifice, even their own bodies. (Rm. 12:1) then it is the Holy Spirit who calls them hierateuma = priesthood, which is the only one in the NT church, versus a separate sacerdotal class.

The Catholic understanding of the office of priest was not determined by the usage in English.

Exactly, but her imposed meaning of presbuteros being a separate class of clergy whose primary function was that of offering sacrifices as priests (Latin sacerdos) is behind the English using priest for presbuteros.

67 posted on 11/20/2014 7:38:25 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson