If Mormon missionaries were straightforward about Mormonism…[Best 4-minute video on topic]

Mormon Coffee Blog ^ | Oct. 30, 2014 | Sharon Lindbloom

[Colofornian]

Though done in a lighthearted manner, this 4-minute video is a fairly accurate depiction of standard Mormon doctrine. It would be nice if Mormon missionaries explained Mormonism as clearly as the characters in this video do, but I imagine that would not foster strong LDS Church growth.

Mormon Secrets: What the Missionaries Don’t Tell

By Saved XMormon

[Alex Murphy]

Many I have spoken to over the years. I ask them to name a Christian who lived in the second century, third century or fourth century, they can’t name any. They attack Catholic doctrines such as baptismal regeneration and the Real Presence so anyone holding those beliefs can’t be Christian......Can’t have it both ways my friend.

I see. So then, you're claiming to have interviewed all of the Protestant Reformation leaders who lived 600 years ago? Remember, you said that "Protestants say it was gone for 1,400 years." I would think that for someone to claim it was gone for 1,400 years, they must have been alive in 1400 A.D. to say it.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

I said “some” . And they are the intellectually consistent ones.

For example, let’s take the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. “Some” on this board will claim that anyone believing this, believes in a false gospel.

Now, find me anyone claiming to be a Christian prior to the 16th century who did not believe in baptismal regeneration.
The nicene creed says we believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Again, can’t have it both ways.

[Alex Murphy]

I said “some”

That's true - you did say "some". But you put a date on it, pointing fingers at the Protestant leaders during the Reformation, not at laypersons making claims on their behalf 600 years later.

For example, let’s take the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. “Some” on this board will claim that anyone believing this, believes in a false gospel. Now, find me anyone claiming to be a Christian prior to the 16th century who did not believe in baptismal regeneration. The nicene creed says we believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Tell you what - I'll dig one up for you, and you can have first crack at beating a confession out of him. If he doesn't confess, I win.

[Colofornian]

Many I have spoken to over the years. I ask them to name a Christian who lived in the second century, third century or fourth century, they can’t name any. They attack Catholic doctrines such as baptismal regeneration and the Real Presence so anyone holding those beliefs can’t be Christian......Can’t have it both ways my friend. What these folks don’t understand is, their attack on historical Christian beliefs leads right to Joseph Smith and his lie that the true Church fell away.

Alex, I see what OLOFOB is talking about now...I now understand his point.

The romanized version of what is now considered the Roman Catholic church doesn't really go back to the earliest post-Jesus incarnational years as some non-denom Protestants assume it does. And so they tend to write off those earliest centuries as "Roman Catholic" (and not "catholic" with a small "c" as to its original meaning...the church UNIVERSAL...and therefore, somehow the early church "corrupted" thru and thru in various ways.

OLOFOB is right in that
(a) many non-denom members these days -- along with even mainline Protestants -- can't begin to name any Christian who lived in the second thru 4th centuries;
(b) They assume that certain beliefs -- like baptismal regeneration and the Real Presence -- were somehow late-on-the-scene "add-ons" imposed by Roman Catholic leaders in later centuries.

Yet components of the Real Presence has been there from the get-go...see John 6:48-58, for example. {And even some church bodies (Evangelical Free, others) & authors (John McArthur) that have moved away from Luther's understanding of Communion concede that it's not like they somehow want to be teaching that an omnipresent Christ is somehow missing from the Sacrament altar (or pew)!}

(As for baptismal regeneration, there was NO controversy in the early church. And, in fact, passages like 1 Peter 3:20-21 and Acts 2:38-39 actually winds up surprising many non-denom members, who usually perform interesting gymnastics to steer away from a plain reading of the text!)

So, OLOFOB's point seems to be that some of these modern-day Protestants think Christ's church was AWOL all those years. I would think tho OLOFOB, that a lot of those you reference wouldn't think a 100% apostasy occurred in those centuries...just that there were a number of theological aberrations and a goodly # of "heretics" on the loose.

And that, to me, is a big difference: The Mormon church says we were...
...100% apostatized ('cept the apostle John and alleged Nephite disciples from the Americas);
...that we as Christians 100% became corrupt professors of our faith;
...and that our creeds were a 100% abomination.

I don't think any of the people you are referencing goes even close to that far of a Joseph Smith "scorched earth" claim.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Joke if you wish.....my point remains. Joseph smith and Mormonism can only flourish in seed that was planted by those who claim the Church fell away at some point. Of course, the Scriptures only allow for a great apostasy right before the second coming and the end of the world. Even then, there will still be Christians alive and the true Faith held.

[Alex Murphy]

Joke if you wish.....my point remains....

...demolished, as I'm about to demonstrate.

Joseph smith and Mormonism can only flourish in seed that was planted by those who claim the Church fell away at some point.

These seed-planters would be the people you interviewed? That's who you said was making the claim. You seem to be making a bigger case for the existence of time travel than for the Protestant Reformation believing itself to be founded on the idea of a Great Apostasy.

 Of course, the Scriptures only allow for a great apostasy right before the second coming and the end of the world. Even then, there will still be Christians alive and the true Faith held.

Excuse me, but I couldn't help noticing that you've dropped some of your seeds.

[svcw]

Initial statement by “lds missionaries” are lies. plan and simple.

[Elsie]

Mainstream Christians used to understand that.

As well as killing an unborn in the mothers womb: Exodus 21:22

Homosexuality: Genesis 13:13, Romans 1:24-29

[Elsie]

That's because...

You'r just a HATER!!!

--MormonDude(I don't understand EVERYTHING my chosen religion teaches; but By Cracky! I believe it!)

[Elsie]

You need a bit more straw for your man.

We’ll deal with MARY being dead in another thread.

[Elsie]

Some

covers a multitude of sins...

[Elsie]

I want to learn about Christians, so I’m going to ask a Mormon to educate me.

Good idea; as they already HAVE made quite a few statements about them!

---

---

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

I’ve yet to see an FR Mormon either reject or accept the above...

[Elsie]

Many I have spoken to over the years. I ask them to name a Christian who lived in the second century, third century or fourth century, they can’t name any.

I can name some who lived later; and they were quite powerful men in the Roman Catholic Church.

If you want to try to turn this thread into yet another "The Catholics are the only True and FULL Christians"; go ahead; but I want to keep the focus on the heresy that calls itself Mormonism.

Your chosen religion thinks very little of it.

Why don't you post things IT has produced denouncing LDS?

[Elsie]

Can’t have it both ways my friend.

I'd recommend NOT going here...

[Elsie]

Joseph smith and Mormonism can only flourish in seed that was planted by those who claim the Church fell away at some point.

And Catholicism makes the claim that ONLY it has the unbroken line of acceptance from Jesus Christ 'til today.

[Elsie]

Initial statement by “lds missionaries” are lies. plan and simple.

I know a fella that used to be a missionary.

I wonder if he ever told any lies??

or went swimming...

---

The Rules

1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
4. Don't debate or argue.
5. Center your mind on your mission.
6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
7. Cut your hair regularly.
8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
9. Be neat and clean.
10. Bathe frequently.
11. Use deodorant.
12. Polish your shoes.
13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
18. Exercise regularly.
19. Write in your journal regularly.
20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
36. Do not go on road trips.
37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
38. Do not watch television.
39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
40. Do not listen to the radio.
41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
42. Do not participate in musical groups.
43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
45. Do not engage in contact sports.
46. Do not engage in water sports.
47. Do not engage in winter sports.
48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
51. Do not embark on a private boat.
52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
53. Do not handle firearms.
54. Do not handle explosives.
55. Do not swim.
56. Do not play full court basketball.
57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
59. You may play half-court basketball.
60. Never be alone.
61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
62. Be loyal to your companion.
63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
64. Pray with your companion every day.
65. Study with your companion every day.
66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
72. Do not arise before your companion.
73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
77. Do not flirt.
78. Do not date.
79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
90. Do not telephone parents
91. Do not telephone relatives.
92. Do not telephone friends.
93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
98. Obey all mission rules.
99. Obey the laws of the land.
100. Do not get involved in politics.
101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
102. Do not give any information about the area.
103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
108. Be courteous.
109. Provide community service.
110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
114. Keep your housing unit clean.
115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
121. Maintain your health.
122. Eat a healthy diet.
123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
124. Follow the approved exercise program.
125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
129. Be immunized.
130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
131. Budget your money carefully.
132. Keep a record of what you spend.
133. Do not spend more than your companion.
134. Do not loan money.
135. Do not borrow money.
136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
141. Be a frugal photographer.
142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
147. Do not drive without a license.
148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
149. Do not drive members’ cars.
150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
155. Drive defensively.
156. Wear your seat belt.
157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
160. Know bicycle safety rules.
161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

[Elsie]

Lies???

Not us!!

We tell folks ONLY what our beloved church has taught us to say!

[Elsie]

We tell folks ONLY what our beloved church has taught us to say!

---

 

 

Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

---

 

 

Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Elsie]

 

If you have cable TV, there won’t be much on to watch.

 

 

 

 

If there isn’t much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.

 

 

 

 

If you open your door, you will see mormons.

 

 

 

 

If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into “praying about whether something is true”.

 

 

 

 

If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.

 

 

 

 

If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!

 

 

 

 

If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.

DON’T be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.