Posted on 11/08/2014 8:35:21 PM PST by walkinginthedesert
The natural law requires sacrifice
In the first place it is to be seen that the Natural Law requires us to sacrifice. Saint Thomas states in the first place that there are three main types of laws. There is first and foremost human laws (positive laws), there is the Natural Law, and lastly there is the Divine and Eternal laws. It is precisely the Natural Law that we will focus in for this specific article. The natural law is basically the structure which God creates in man so that he inclines man to specific types of actions. He designs man to perform specific types of acts. He designs him in a specific way1
The Church states with Saint Thomas Aquinas that we are bound to follow the Natural Law. One of the aspects of the natural law is precisely that it commands all of the virtues. One of these virtues is precisely that of sacrifice. Saint Thomas further states that sacrifice is itself the highest act of religion. Sacrifice is defined as an offering of some good thing back to God. This can include a merit or some sort of good work which we perform and offer back to God2
The need for Divine Revelation
Once we realize that sacrifice is necessary and that God obliges us to do it, the question that should come up is, how and what does God want us to sacrifice? It is after all only through Divine Revelation that we can know what sacrifices are pleasing to God. Fr. Chad Ripperger gives a very good analogy regarding the problems we would have regarding performing sacrifices, without the help of Divine Revelation. Without Divine Revelation we would not know what the nature of God is, and thus we would not be able to know what sort of sacrifices please him, as well as which sacrifices displease him. Fr Chad Ripperger states that without the help of Divine Revelation this is tantamount to going to someones house for the first time and they dont know you, but when you arrive, they presume to make all sorts of assumptions about you; for dinner we are going to have brain and squid intestines because they think that is what you like.3 With these types of assumptions about God, we will surely offend God by offering false sacrifices, which he never liked or willed.
In the Old Testament God gave very precise and strict instructions on how sacrifices were to be done. This is true in regards to Exodus all the way through Deuteronomy. In the New Testament Jesus himself states do this in commemoration of me. (Lk 22:19)
A short history of sacrifice: The reality of the necessity of Divine Revelation
Cardinal Gibbons states We find sacrifices existing not only among the Jews, who worshiped the true God, but also among pagan and idolatrous nations. No matter how confused, imperfect or erroneous was their knowledge of the Deity, the pagan nations retained sufficient vestiges of primitive tradition to admonish them of their obligation of appeasing the anger and involving the blessings of the Divinity by victims and sacrifices.4
Throughout history man usually tends to have a desire to offer sacrifice to God. This is true of the Pagan world such as the Aztecs, the civilization of Carthage, and various tribes in the Middle East, yet they were not precisely what God wanted. God did not reveal himself to them. So many of these cultures for example practiced things such as human sacrifice, and various other types of sacrifice that failed in some way from what God really wanted. These sacrifices were displeasing to God. An example of such abominable practices of sacrifices is found in Jeremias:
Because they have forsaken me, and have profaned this place: and have sacrificed therein to strange gods, whom neither they nor their fathers knew, nor the kings of Juda: and they have filled this place with the blood of innocents. And they have built the high places of Baal, to burn their children with fire for a holocaust to Baal: which I did not command, nor speak of, neither did it once come into my mind. (Jeremiah 19:5)Sacrifices in Biblical Judaism
Throughout the Old Testament the chosen people of God are always offering sacrifice to Him. This is true as early as Cain and able. Able offered to the Lord the firstlings of his flock, while Cain offered of the fruits of the earth. Later when Noe and his family are rescued from the deluge which had spread over the face of the earth, his first act on issuing from the ark, when the waters disappeared, is to offer holocausts to the Lord, in thanksgiving for his preservation (Gen 8). Abraham the great father of the Jewish himself offered victims to the Almighty at His request (Gen 15). We even read that Job was accustomed to offer holocaust and sacrifice to the Lord to propitiate His favor. God is very concrete and explicit in how he wants the Jewish to offer sacrifices in the book of Exodus.
The sacrifice at Calvary and the Mass
It is precisely the Holy Sacrifice at Calvary which constitutes the perfect and eternal sacrifice which could ever be offered up. It is in this specific moment in which our redemption is brought about, and which the submit of Salvation History reaches its climax. It is this precise sacrifice that fulfilled all the Old Testament Sacrifices.
Many Protestants thus while acknowledging both the reality regarding the perfection of the Sacrifice at Calvary, and also acknowledging the reality that Christ abolished the Old Testament sacrifices of the Jews, end up at a false conclusion. They conclude that because the Sacrifice of Calvary is perfect and because it is thus the fulfillment of all the Old Testament sacrifices, that Christ himself abolished the need for any more sacrifices. This is clearly not true. We should thus ask ourselves, did God in rejecting the Jewish oblations (sacrifices) or even in fulfilling them, deem or intend to abolish all sacrifices altogether? Rather Christ rejected and even fulfilled the Old Testament sacrifices, namely because they were simply types or prefigurements for the perfect sacrifice of God Himself, which we commemorate in a real way in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
This then leads us to one of the main aspects of the Mass, namely that it is the same sacrifice as that of Calvary.
The Mass the same sacrifice as Calvary
We therefore confess that the Sacrifice of the Mass is and ought to be considered one and the same Sacrifice as that of the Cross, for the victim is one and the same, namely, Christ Our Lord, who offered Himself, once only, a bloody Sacrifice on the altar of the Cross. The bloody and unbloody victim are not two, but one victim only, whose sacrifice is daily renewed in the Eucharist, in obedience to the command of Our Lord; Do this for a commemoration of me5 The same Catechism further states that just as Christ was the one offering himself up at Calvary, the same Christ offers Himself up at each Mass through the priest who acts in persona Christi:
The Priest is also one and the same, Christ the Lord; for the minister who offers Sacrifice, consecrate the holy mysteries, not in their person, but in that of Christ, as the words of Consecration itself show, for the priest does not say: This is the body of Christ, but, This is My Body, and thus acting in the Person of Christ the Lord, he changes the substance of the bread and wine into the true substance of His Body and Blood6
For this reason it is completely false to believe as many Protestants do, that we somehow "re-sacrifice" Christ at each Mass. Rather we simply offer up the same sacrifice at Calvary, which is re-presented in a real and literal way during the Mass. The Sacrifice at Calvary was so perfect, that it is Eternal and with no end. The Mass as the perfect prayer
Another aspect of the Mass is that just as it is the perfect sacrifice (since it is the same sacrifice as that of Calvary, which is perfect), the Mass is also the perfect prayer of the Church. This is why Pope Saint Pius X stated so explicitly:
The Holy Mass is a prayer itself, even the highest prayer that exists. It is the Sacrifice dedicated by our Redeemer at the Cross, and repeated every day on the Altar. If you wish to hear Mass as it should be heard, you must follow with eye, heart and mouth all that happens at the Altar. Further, you must pray with the Priest the holy words said by him in the Name of Christ and which Christ says by him. You have to associate your heart with the holy feelings which are contained in these words and in this manner you ought to follow all that happens on the Altar. When acting in this way you have prayed Holy Mass.
Dont pray at Holy Mass, but pray the Holy Mass" This is why it is very reasonable that the active participation in the liturgy which the Council Fathers of Vatican II had in mind, did not necessarily involve what has come to be the clericalization of the laity in which in order to actively participate in the liturgy, you are almost obliged to do some type of Church ministry. This includes being an Extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, a lecturer, and various other things. Rather an active participation is nothing other than following along and uniting your prayers with that of the Priest who is celebrating the Mass. It involves uniting your prayers with the priest at the scene of Calvary which is what is being literally and really being made present. The Mass should thus be one of constant meditation and of interior participation in the Mass and not so much exterior activity. There is a due reverent silence that is given at Mass.
The Various Effects of Mass
Fr. Chad Ripperger states Because Mass is itself the same sacrifice at Calvary which is made presented to us in the Mass, it is the font of all graces. Redemption and the obliteration of sin was the result of the Holy Sacrifice at Calvary. The same thing happens during each Mass that we attend, it is as if Christs blood was being shed again and being offered up, but this time in an un-bloody way, yet the same graces are granted.7
It is precisely because the Mass is the same sacrifice as that of Calvary, that it has many effects that come whenever a Mass is celebrated and whenever we ourselves attend it.
The Mass itself gives us the opportunity for Holy Communion. each sacrament according to the Church has specific effects that are proper to that sacrament. This is what is known as sacramental graces. Each sacrament gives us specific graces which allows us to achieve the finality in which that sacrament is directed towards8 In the case of the Mass we receive Holy Communion. Just as we get nurtured and remain healthy when we receive natural food, Holy Communion we feed on the supernatural food that is Christs body, we are thus less vulnerable to fall into Mortal and Venial Sin.
When we go to Mass we receive the same effects as that of Calvary. That means that we receive redemption, but we also grow in virtue. When we are attending Mass, we have the freedom for praying and petitioning God for the various virtues which we lack in. The prayers of Mass also help cleanse us from all venial sin.
Mass itself also provides an orientation for the rest of the day. It helps organize the rest of the day, reminding us what saint Ignatius of Loyola would call Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam which is Latin for For the Greater Glory of God. The reason why the Mass helps orientate our day towards God Himself is precisely that the Mass is Christ/God centered (or at least it should be). For it is God who we are offering sacrifice to. This is why I love the action that is done in several parishes, such as those which offer the Tridentine Mass or Extraordinary Form of the Mass. They practice what is known as Ad Orientem worship. The priest faces the East. The priest faces the altar, the same direction as the congregation. This is a sign that the whole ecclesiastical community (The Church) is offering the same sacrifice to the same and Almighty God. It is one of syncretism and orientation towards the True God who is being offered sacrifice.
A Modern rejection of Sacrifice
One main reason why modern society rejects a notion of sacrifice is describe by the fact that the reality of suffering is almost forgotten. "technology has made our lives so simple and easy, and thus hard to ignore the difficult things. Similarly people say well if we are to offer a good thing back to God, then why should I offer something such as my suffering. The fact of the matter is that by offering it, it is a call to the virtue of sacrifice. It is not so much that the person suffers aimlessly. One of the virtues of Christ dying on the Holy Sacrifice at Calvary, is that it adds merits to our sufferings, which without it, our sufferings are vain."8 Sacrifice is itself as Saint Thomas Aquinas calls the highest act of religion. This is why the modern rejection of sacrifice is a sad reality. If we do not offer proper and due sacrifice to God, then we have nothing to show for ourselves. In our own particular judgement would priests be able to present God the various Masses they celebrated and offered up? Or would laypersons be able to present to God the various means which we could have offered up as sacrifice? This could include the various Masses we attended, or it could simply be the daily struggles and sufferings we encountered. Whatever the case may be, the reality is that God Himself desires sacrifice, and the perfect of these is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is this sacrifice alone, that is perfect, just as the Crucifixion at Calvary was perfect.
notes:
1)Fr. Chad Ripperger "Talk given on Sacrifice in the Mass" 2) ibid 3)ibid 4)James Cardinal Gibbons "The Faith of Our Fathers, Tan Books 1876, pg. 266" 5)The Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent pg. 275 6)ibid 7)Fr. Chad Ripperger "Talk given on "Frequent Mass and Confession" 8)ibid 9)Ripperger "op cit. Sacrifice in the Mass"
The court of last resort cannot be the Scripture. Because it is no court, as St. Francis de Sales brilliantly argued.
The Scripture is the infallible law. But the infallible law does not stand on its own without a judiciary to interpret and apply it. We don’t pass out copies of the Constitution and tell people “Here. Obey this.”
If it be objected that it is foolish to put an infallible law in the hands of a fallible judiciary, I can only agree.
And I would point to the decrees of the First Vatican Council for the resolution to this problem.
1) Regarding the "I am the door" and "I am the vine" passages, look at the differences between the Greek words: My flesh is true (alethes) food, and I am the true (alethinos) vine. Those two words carry a rather different connotation of "true". Plus the sheer forcefulness with which Christ insists on this idea in John 6: "unless you *gnaw on* my flesh". There is ample ground for taking it in much more literal way than the other passages.
2) Let's suppose transubstantiation is a Roman innovation of the 9th century (though I dispute this). The Orthodox Church and all the Oriental Churches (whose schism is much older) hold to a change in the elements, even as they reject transubstantiation as a philosophical explanation. How to explain that, if the ancient Church was divided on this point?
Indeed, it is so manifest on context that the "body" they failed to recognized as being so was not the nature of the elements, which never is the issue, but failing to recognize the nature of the church as the body of Christ, despising the church of God by failing to treat others as being part that body, which is the theme of the next chapter.
From the top,
Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. (1 Corinthians 11:17)
According to you and the fallible interpretation of others (as I know not of any "infallible" interpretation of this chapter), this "worse" must mean they did not recognize the elements were actually the body and blood of the Lord, versus not recognizing what the church is by treating others as if they were not part of that body. But what saith the Scripture?
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. (1 Corinthians 11:18-19)
Thus the issue is divisions within the body, which the RC must insist refers to division due to views on what the elements consist of. But what saith the Scripture?
When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God , and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. (1 Corinthians 11:20-22)
Thus the reality is that the issue was that by going ahead and eating this meal ahead of others, and shaming others who were hungry, some of the Corinthians treated others contrary to being part of the body which Christ purchased with His own sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) despising the church of God, which was the body they manifestly failed to see as being such.
They thus were being inconsistent with what they were to show by this communal meal, that of Christ's selfless giving of Himself for them. Which was hypocrisy for a professing Christian, akin to Peter withdrawing himself from the Gentiles when the Judaizers showed up. (Gal. 2:11ff)
Next, Paul reiterates Luke's account of the original Lord's supper:
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come
This is what RCs look at in order to assert that "not discerning the Lord's body" refers to the nature of the elements, but which is based upon his prior erroneous, unScriptural, endocannibalistic interpretation of Lord's body and blood. [Which ignores the clear use of metaphor in the OT, in which men are referred to being bread for Israel, and water is referred as their blood, etc. And instead has kosher Peter and co. silently eating human flesh and blood, so that Christ is being digested their stomach, and His own, while yet before them, and even though Peter protested even eating unclean animals!]
However, in this chapter, even if one holds the RC view, what is being taught is that "as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew [kataggellō=preach, proclaim, declare] the Lord's death till he come. (1 Corinthians 11:26) Which they were not doing by treating some as if they were not part of the Lord's body, the church, and thus Paul said at the outset that when they come together therefore into one place it actually was not to eat the Lord's supper, as they some filled their face and others went hungry, rather than sharing what was supposed to be a simple communal meal, a "feast of charity" as Jude 1:12 terms it.
Therefore as they were acting contrary to that, Paul next adds,
Wherefore [since you were not showing the Lord's death by your actions] whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (1 Corinthians 11:27-29)
Thus in context what is plain and obvious is that the issue was never that of a dispute over the nature of the elements, and with the focus being on that, but that by selfishly eating independently and leaving others out then they were were acting contrary to what they were supposed to be showing, that of the Lord's sacrificial death for the body, effectively treating others as unbelievers instead, and thus were not recognizing the unity of that body,
Thus, after revealing that this violation was why "many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep," the apostle provides the remedy:
Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. (1 Corinthians 11:33-34)
The "tarry one for another" and not coming to fill their face is exactly what they did not do, "For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God , and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. (1 Corinthians 11:21,22)"
Thus it remains that the "praise you not" censure, the "not discerning the Lord's body" was that of going ahead and eating this meal ahead of others, shaming others as if they were not part of this body which Christ purchased with His own shed blood, when this very meal was supposed to show the Lord's unselfish death for them, and thus they showed contempt for ("despise ye") the church of God. Which is the "body" in focus, and thus the next chapter continues that theme.
This is certainly contrary to focusing on eating the elements of bread and wine and rushing out the door, or even remembering Lord death in the Lord's supper but not as showing it by the caring and sharing manner in which it is done, and it seems rather evident this "feast of charity" was not that of just eating a piece of bread dispensed by the pastor, and which were never distinctively titled "priests, nor was it treated as an atonement for sin.
And as said, though the Catholics insist upon their imaginative view of the "Real Presence," 1Cor. 11:17-34 simply is not referring to not discerning the elements as being actually the Lord's body, as even the notes on the RC NAB Bible has said for decades:
[11:27] It follows that the only proper way to celebrate the Eucharist is one that corresponds to Jesus intention, which fits with the meaning of his command to reproduce his action in the proper spirit. If the Corinthians eat and drink unworthily, i.e., without having grasped and internalized the meaning of his death for them, they will have to answer for the body and blood, i.e., will be guilty of a sin against the Lord himself (cf. 1 Cor 8:12). .
* [11:28] Examine himself: the Greek word is similar to that for approved in 1 Cor 11:19, which means having been tested and found true. The self-testing required for proper eating involves discerning the body (1 Cor 11:29), which, from the context, must mean understanding the sense of Jesus death (1 Cor 11:26), perceiving the imperative to unity that follows from the fact that Jesus gives himself to all and requires us to repeat his sacrifice in the same spirit (1 Cor 11:1825) - http://www.usccb.org/bible/1cor/11:28#54011028-1
But other RCs have their own fallible interpretation, regardless of what Scripture manifestly teaches.
Moreover, that's what the early Christians believed. You are consoling yourself and papering over this monstrous heresy..ny review of the earliest Christian writers would demonstrate otherwise
Wrong, it manifestly was not was not what the early Christians believed, as rather than being the "source and summit of the Christian life," in which "redemption is accomplished," by its separate class of priests offering Christ as atonement as he did upon the Cross, and by which believers obtain spiritual life in themselves," around which all revolved, it is not only described in 1Cor. in the life of the church, and in which it manifestly teaches as i explained above.
Nor as said is their any priesthood apart from that of all believers, nor are NT pastors ever shown dispensing food as part of their primary ordained duty, much less human flesh and blood, as instead their ordained duty was that of prayer, preaching the word. (cf. Acts 6:4)
Which alone is what is said to spiritually nourish souls, (Acts 20:32; 1Tim. 4:6) with doing God's will and work being "meat" and how to live, (Mt. 44; Jn. 4:34) while the Lord's supper is only manifestly described once in the life of the church with any detail, in which the church is the body of Christ which shows, declares, His death by how they partake of the communal meal.
Nor is spiritual life ever obtained by literally consuming anything physical: and in fact the metaphorical view is the only one which is consistent with the rest of the writings of John, and the rest of Scripture, and the use of figurative eating and drinking. As has been shown before here, by the grace of God.
Only in paganism is spiritual life obtained by consuming human flesh, as shown , and like them RC essentially insist,
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. (Jeremiah 44:17)
Well done! The twisting and corruption of scripture by the Catholic Church knows no bounds.
bump
Why should it, as an autocratic authority can declare Truth by fiat, and RC assurance rests upon the premise of the presumed veracity of Rome? Only being too in-credible and fear of being exposed by those pesky Prots would hinder such if it served her purpose.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."Quick" here means "alive." (Greek "zon") So the enscripturated communication of God to man is a living thing. How does it live? Why should we not simply think of it as mere words on paper? Because God always sends it to a purpose, and that purpose is always accomplished, because it is carried forward by the intervention of God Himself through His Holy Spirit to its intended recipients, and will not fail to reach us. Nothing can be more alive, nor more suitable to serve as both the measure and the adjudicator of truth for Christian faith and practice, than the epistle of the living God, the living expression of His own mind, written for and to His children, the sheep of His pasture, whom He has personally guaranteed will hear His voice, and will not follow another.
13. Now he is in bondage to a sign who uses, or pays homage to, any significant object without knowing what it signifies: he, on the other hand, who either uses or honors a useful sign divinely appointed, whose force and significance he understands, does not honor the sign which is seen and temporal, but that to which all such signs refer. Now such a man is spiritual and free even at the time of his bondage, when it is not yet expedient to reveal to carnal minds those signs by subjection to which their carnality is to be overcome. To this class of spiritual persons belonged the patriarchs and the prophets, and all those among the people of Israel through whose instrumentality the Holy Spirit ministered unto us the aids and consolations of the Scriptures. But at the present time, after that the proof of our liberty has shone forth so clearly in the resurrection of our Lord, we are not oppressed with the heavy burden of attending even to those signs which we now understand, but our Lord Himself, and apostolic practice, have handed down to us a few rites in place of many, and these at once very easy to perform, most majestic in their significance, and most sacred in the observance; such, for example, as the sacrament of baptism, and the celebration of the body and blood of the Lord. And as soon as any one looks upon these observances he knows to what they refer, and so reveres them not in carnal bondage, but in spiritual freedom. Now, as to follow the letter, and to take signs for the things that are signified by them, is a mark of weakness and bondage; so to interpret signs wrongly is the result of being misled by error. He, however, who does not understand what a sign signifies, but yet knows that it is a sign, is not in bondage. And it is better even to be in bondage to unknown but useful signs than, by interpreting them wrongly, to draw the neck from under the yoke of bondage only to insert it in the coils of error.In the above passage Augustine is drawing a contrast between being in carnal bondage to a wrongly interpreted sign, versus the spiritual freedom of recognizing that to which the sign refers, and giving honor to that "truth behind," and not the sign itself, as if it were anything in itself. So as the patriarchs and prophets labored under various signs before Christ came to fulfill them, yet those signs were ordained for their good, providing they did not do so in weakness, confusing the temporal sign with the divine reality it expressed. So too in the New Covenant, we have signs in the form of rites, including the celebration of the body and blood of Jesus, and we also have the reality, the living Christ, to which the signs refer. Thus, Augustine's analysis is reduced to a pile of nonsense IF the sign and the thing to which it refers are the same thing, for then there is no distinction in honor, honoring the reality by means of the sign, but not the sign itself, which is the focal point of this paragraph.
Available at: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/12023.htm
Orth. Although what has been said is enough for your faith, I will, for confirmation of the faith, give you yet another proof.In this hypothetical dialog, Orthodoxos represents what was widely accepted as orthodox Christian belief at the time of this writing (5th Century, I believe). This also represents a direct, irreconcilable conflict with the central premise of transubstantiation. A transformation of the Eucharist is admitted, but not one that vacates the nature of the visible objects, but rather adds to that nature grace. Thus, if the nature of bread remains, the bread is bread both in substance and accidence. As with the wine. This still represents an evolution from the simpler sense of the paschal meal in Scripture, but clearly cuts against the grain of the sense conveyed in Aquinas and later Trent, and would doubtless be subject to the anathemas of Trent. And yet it was obviously widely and uncontroversially accepted before Radbertus appeared to propose his novel and alien hyper-literalism.
Eran. I shall be grateful to you for so doing, for you will increase the favour done me.
Orth. You know how God called His own body bread?
Eran. Yes.
Orth. And how in another place he called His flesh grain?
Eran. Yes, I know. For I have heard Him saying The hour has come that the Son of man should be glorified, and Except a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone; but if it die it brings forth much fruit.
Orth. Yes; and in the giving of the mysteries He called the bread, body, and what had been mixed, blood.
Eran. He so did.
Orth. Yet naturally the body would properly be called body, and the blood, blood.
Eran. Agreed.
Orth. But our Saviour changed the names, and to His body gave the name of the symbol and to the symbol that of his body. So, after calling himself a vine, he spoke of the symbol as blood.
Eran. True. But I am desirous of knowing the reason of the change of names.
Orth. To them that are initiated in divine things the intention is plain. For he wished the partakers in the divine mysteries not to give heed to the nature of the visible objects, but, by means of the variation of the names, to believe the change wrought of grace. For He, we know, who spoke of his natural body as grain and bread, and, again, called Himself a vine, dignified the visible symbols by the appellation of the body and blood, not because He had changed their nature, but because to their nature He had added grace.
Available here: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/27031.htm
John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.Here, alethinos does not deny the corporeal reality of the manna that fed the children of Israel in the wilderness, but instead points to the underlying truth for which the manna was simply a type or figure, which Jesus then clarifies as being Himself. He is the antitype to which the type of the manna pointed.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.However, it is important to observe, as Vos does, that what we are seeing here are not two absolutely distinct terms, but the same term at different levels of intensity. This means that you can sometimes get semantic overlap, where the sense of alethinos is not appreciably different from alethes, which connotes more of a binary true/false relationship to the subject under discussion:
John 4:37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.What this means for John 6:55 is that when He says "true food" and "true drink," we are looking at the unintensified, generic "true/false" assertion. In that lesser sense, the manna was "true food," in that it met the physical hunger for which it was designed. But Jesus has raised the stakes, and is confronting the confusion in his audience. They know the bread He fed them with from the loaves and fishes was true food, in that it met their physical hunger. But now they are hearing Him speak of His body and blood as food, something they know, under the law, and by natural law, they have neither right nor inclination to eat, and they are challenged about whether this offer of food is sincere. How can it be true food, if the thing being offered cannot be eaten, at least not under the rules as they understood them?
He says, it is true, that the flesh profiteth nothing; 7525 but then, as in the former case, the meaning must be regulated by the subject which is spoken of. Now, because they thought His discourse was harsh and intolerable, supposing that He had really and literally enjoined on them to eat his flesh, He, with the view of ordering the state of salvation as a spiritual thing, set out with the principle, It is the spirit that quickeneth; and then added, The flesh profiteth nothing,meaning, of course, to the giving of life. He also goes on to explain what He would have us to understand by spirit: The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. In a like sense He had previously said: He that heareth my words, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but shall pass from death unto life. 7526 Constituting, therefore, His word as the life-giving principle, because that word is spirit and life, He likewise called His flesh by the same appellation; because, too, the Word had become flesh, 7527 we ought therefore to desire Him in order that we may have life, and to devour Him with the ear, and to ruminate on Him with the understanding, and to digest Him by faith.So we have at least one patristic writer who would take no offense at the word "trogo" being used as an intense metaphor for spiritually feeding on Christ.
23.3 τρώγω; γεύομαιb; βιβρώσκω; βρῶσιςa, εως f: to consume solid foodto eat, eating.Either way, the impetus to arrive at a literal meaning is not compelled by the text itself, but by the need to retroactively justify the later speculations of transubstantiation, which in reality have no bearing on this passage whatsoever. Jesus is doing what He always does in the Gospels, inviting lost, hunger sinners to find everything they need in Him, by coming to Him in faith, and feeding on the grace of God that flows from the cross of Jesus.
τρώγω: ἦσαν τρώγοντες καὶ πίνοντες people ate and drank Mt 24:38.
γεύομαιb: ἐγένετο δὲ πρόσπεινος καὶ ἤθελεν γεύσασθαι he became hungry and wanted to eat Ac 10:10.
βιβρώσκω: ἐκ τῶν πέντε ἄρτων τῶν κριθίνων ἃ ἐπερίσσευσαν τοῖς βεβρωκόσιν from the five barley loaves of bread which the people had eaten Jn 6:13.
βρῶσιςa: περὶ τῆς βρώσεως οὖν τῶν εἰδωλοθύτων concerning the eating of meat sacrificed to idols 1 Cor 8:4.
Context does help here.
That said, today’s evangelical symbolic communion would be difficult to abuse in the same manner. It sounds a lot from the text like the Corinthians got a pretty substantial hunk of bread in their ceremony.
Knowledgeable evangelicals (there are shallow ones, like there are shallow Catholics) will invite Jesus into all their sufferings, knowing that He stands willing and able.
I adore Christ at communion. I adore Christ at many other places. He does do omnipresence well.
In this hypothetical dialog, Orthodoxos represents what was widely accepted as orthodox Christian belief at the time of this writing (5th Century, I believe).
That's the quote I was remembering, thank you! But see this from Book 2: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/27032.htm
Eran. As, then, the symbols of the Lord's body and blood are one thing before the priestly invocation, and after the invocation are changed and become another thing; so the Lord's body after the assumption is changed into the divine substance.Orth. You are caught in the net you have woven yourself. For even after the consecration the mystic symbols are not deprived of their own nature; they remain in their former substance figure and form; they are visible and tangible as they were before. But they are regarded as what they have become, and believed so to be, and are worshipped as being what they are believed to be. Compare then the image with the archetype, and you will see the likeness, for the type must be like the reality. For that body preserves its former form, figure, and limitation and in a word the substance of the body; but after the resurrection it has become immortal and superior to corruption; it has become worthy of a seat on the right hand; it is adored by every creature as being called the natural body of the Lord.
Now I'll grant you that his use of "substance" here seems to mitigate against transubstantiation. However, I'm not sure what Greek terms he's using, and there could well be some translation issues there (remember the Orthodox don't particularly like our formulation of "transubstantiation" anyway). But let's suppose you're right. See what he nonetheless says next in bold?
Does your Sunday liturgy have a consecration? Do you regard the Eucharistic elements "as what they have become"? Do you "worship" the elements "as being what they are believed to be?"
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