All Souls, Purgatory and the Bible

Da Mihi Animas ^ | November 2 2014

[RoosterRedux]

The very fact that you don't consider that the early Church used Marion worship to syncretistically attract pagan goddess worshipers into the fold tells me that you are blind in your study.

Where do you think the Queen of Heaven stuff came from, huh?

[CynicalBear]

>>John 6 clearly refers to the eucharist and cannot be twisted otherwise without mental gymnastics.<<

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirite and life.

Yet Catholics insist it's the flesh. That's mental gymnastics all right.

>>2 Peter 1:20 and 2 Peter 3:16 condemns private interpretation<<

2 Corinthians 1:13 For we write nothing else to you than what you read and understand, and I hope you will understand until the end;

>>The Jewish people have always taught through word of mouth (tradition) AND the written word. The early Christians did not suddenly change this concept, especially since the bible wasn't’t written right away.<<

Now, prove that what the Catholic Church teaches that it calls "tradition" that is not found in scripture is the same thing the apostles taught that they called "tradition". After all, Paul said if something is taught that they didn't teach that teacher is considered accursed by God.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

If the Catholic Church teaches something the apostles didn't teach we are to consider them accursed.

[RoosterRedux]

BTW, do you pray to Mary? If so, are you praying to a dead human or the Coredemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces, Mother of Salvation, Queen of Heaven?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it might just be old fashion goddess worship (despite the dodgy responses and slippery logic of those who participate in such).

[CynicalBear]

>>we humbly beseech you to grant our requests for our salvation and the salvation of the entire world.<<

So in the Catholic world it is she who grants that ey? The goddess of Catholicism grant you nothing.

[verga]

Thank you for proving me correct and yourself completely in error. I will continue to pray that you see the truth.

[RoosterRedux]

Do you mind explaining how I proved you correct? Logic helps you know. Just saying something doesn't make it so.

Again, do you pray to a dead human or the Coredemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces, Mother of Salvation, Queen of Heaven?

It's a simple question. Are you praying to a goddess or to a dead human?

[CynicalBear]

>>Remember EVERYTHING good and true that prots know about God has come from the Catholic Church.<<

1 Corinthians 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

Trying to take credit away from God is not going to turn out well for Catholics.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Evidently Catholics disagree with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Could you show where the assumption of Mary is taught by the apostles in scripture?

[CynicalBear]

Is that the Maccabees that says money replaces the blood of Christ?

2 Maccabbees 12:43, "And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection."

The Holy Spirit says this.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Quoting from books that disagree with the Holy Spirit is deadly.

[verga]

I am sorry and apologize for breaking my own rule about giving prots a springboard for rants, tantrums, hissy fits, and generally ignorant comments.

[Coleus]

Purgatory is in the Bible

[Coleus]

Purgatory

[RoosterRedux]

I am sorry and apologize for breaking my own rule about giving prots a springboard for rants, tantrums, hissy fits, and generally ignorant comments.

LOL...what a cop-out.

Again, simply question...who do you pray to? A dead human or the Coredemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces, Mother of Salvation, Queen of Heaven?

[RoosterRedux]

Apology accepted!;-)

[CynicalBear]

>> and generally ignorant comments.<<

I can understand why you think they are ignorant. I post scripture and you see ignorance.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[RoosterRedux]

Ouch! You can’t make it any clearer than that.

[FatherofFive]

No

Let's get back to the question I asked.

In God's perspective, how long is a day?

[af_vet_1981]

Is that the Maccabees that says money replaces the blood of Christ? 2 Maccabbees 12:43, "And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection."

The 13 Contribution Chests (Trumpets) According to the Mishnah (Middoth 2,5) the Women's Court was was just over 200 feet square between bounding lines. Each court on the outside was 60 feet square. The colonnade ran around the court, and within it, against the wall, the thirteen chests, or 'trumpets,' for charitable contributions were placed.

These thirteen chests were narrow at the mouth and wide at the bottom, shaped like trumpets. There were actually eleven treasure chests of the Temple for the voluntary offerings of money, and then also two at the Gate of Susan, for the half-shekel tax.

Their specific objects were carefully marked on them. Nine were for the receipt of what was legally due by worshippers; the other four for strictly voluntary gifts.

According to tradition Edersheim says:

Trumpets 1 and 2 were appropriated to the half-shekel Temple-tribute of the current and of the past year.

Into Trumpet 3 those women who had to bring turtledoves for a burnt and a sin offering dropped their equivalent in money, which was daily taken out and a corresponding number of turtledoves offered. This not only saved the labour of so many separate sacrifices, but spared the modesty of those who might not wish to have the occasion or the circumstances of their offering to be publicly known. Into this trumpet Mary the mother of Jesus must have dropped the value of her offering (Luke 2:22,24) when the aged Simeon took the infant Saviour 'in his arms, and blessed God.'

Trumpet 4 similarly received the value of the offerings of young pigeons.

In Trumpet 5 contributions for the wood used in the Temple;

in Trumpet 6 for the incense, and

in Trumpet 7 for the golden vessels for the ministry were deposited. If a man had put aside a certain sum for a sin-offering, and any money was left over after its purchase, it was cast into Trumpet VIII. Similarly,

Trumpets 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13 were destined for what was left over from trespass-offerings, offerings of birds, the offering of the Nazarite, of the cleansed leper, and voluntary offerings. In all probability this space where the thirteen Trumpets were placed was the 'treasury,' where Jesus taught on that memorable Feast of Tabernacles (John 7 and 8; see specially 8:20). We can also understand how, from the peculiar and known destination of each of these thirteen 'trumpets,' the Lord could distinguish the contributions of the rich who cast in 'of their abundance' from that of the poor widow who of her 'penury' had given 'all the living' that she had (Mark 12:41; Luke 21:1). But there was also a special treasury-chamber, into which at certain times they carried the contents of the thirteen chests; and, besides, what was called 'a chamber of the silent,' where devout persons secretly deposited money, afterwards secretly employed for educating children of the pious poor.

If one doesn't want want the religion one inherited from the Jews, one can return it for a full refund.

The Holy Spirit says this. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

No, that is what the scripture says. If you endeavor to quote the Holy Spirit, you should do so correctly.

And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Quoting from books that disagree with the Holy Spirit is deadly.

Do you have a specific commandment from Messiah or an Apostle that "quoting from books" that you think disagree with the Holy Spirit "is deadly?" Do you think you risk your life by just quoting 2 Maccabees here on the thread ? Do you risk your life if you quote a Gentile philosopher, a Jewish rabbinical source, the US Constitution, or ... any other book that is not on your approved list ? I assume you'll tolerate the Apostle to the Gentiles quoting Epimenides when he wrote a poem to a Greek diety:

One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

They fashioned a tomb for you, holy and high one, Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies. But you are not dead: you live and abide forever, For in you we live and move and have our being.

[boatbums]

I already DID answer that question. What, you ignored it?

[CynicalBear]

>>If one doesn't want want the religion one inherited from the Jews, one can return it for a full refund.<<

And not one of the offerings designated by God were to be offered for dead people.

>>No, that is what the scripture says. If you endeavor to quote the Holy Spirit, you should do so correctly.<<

So you don't believe that all of scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit?

>>Do you have a specific commandment from Messiah or an Apostle that "quoting from books" that you think disagree with the Holy Spirit "is deadly?"<<

If it wasn't taught by the apostles? Yes.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

>>I assume you'll tolerate the Apostle to the Gentiles quoting Epimenides when he wrote a poem to a Greek diety:<<

Nice try at obfuscation but it doesn't work. You were not quoting Maccabees to condemn the teaching contained or those who believe it.

[boatbums]

Heck, they even have a prayer to the thief on the cross! It says:

Dear St. Dismas, you cooperated with the grace that was yours in suffering the same fate as the Divine Master. You repented for your sins and believed, and you heard the Saviour say: "Today you will be with me in paradise." Obtain for prisoners the same grace to repent of their wicked ways, and obtain the same reward---eternal life with Christ. Amen. (http://www.2heartsnetwork.org/Dismas.htm)