Posted on 11/02/2014 3:14:08 PM PST by NYer
On All Souls Day, the Catholic Church offers prayers and liturgies for the repose of the dead. As Catholics, we are called by the Church to focus our spiritual energies to assist these poor souls, who, though saved, are still in need of purification. Our prayers and sacrifices assist them in this process of purification as a means used by God to communicate purifying grace to them. After all, He is the vine, we are the branches so that He produces his fruits of grace through us.
The practice of praying for the dead actually predates Christianity. In 2 Maccabees 12: 41-45, Judas offers prayers and sacrifices for his fallen comrades to make “atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.” Some argue that the books of the Maccabees are not inspired scripture. Leaving that argument aside for now, we can at least look at them as historical books detailing accepted pious practices of God’s people some 300 years before Christ.
If that is the only place in the Bible where we find any reference to purgatory, many Protestant Christians argue, then that is a weak support for such a practice. Fortunately, we know as Catholics that all of our doctrines are indeed found in the Word of God, as is the doctrine of Purgatory. Hence what follows is a biblical understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory.
The book of Genesis recounts for us the far reaching repercussions of Adam and Eve’s disobedience in the Garden. This sin, we find, brought about four consequences which I will summarize here (Gen 3: 16-24):
First, their sin brings about disharmony between persons. God tells Eve that both her relationship to her husband and children will now be characterized by pain and mistrust (Gen 3:16). Further, God has to make garments for man and woman because now, as the text implies, they feel shame (Gen 3:21).
Second, their sin brings about disharmony between man and creation. God tells Adam that he will produce the fruit of the earth with toil and difficulty (Gen 3: 17). Even the ground itself is cursed because of their sin (Gen 3: 17).
Third, their sin brings about disharmony between man and himself. He no longer has spiritual control over his body; thus, his body returns to the dust of the ground (Gen 3: 19). Adam and Eve are no longer able to receive everlasting life (Gen 3: 22).
Lastly and most importantly, sin brings disharmony between God and man. This consequence results in mistrust and fear of God (Gen 3: 10), and, worse, spiritual death. Without God, neither physical nor spiritual life can be sustained (Gen 3: 19, 24).
The first three disharmonies mentioned above are called ‘Temporal punishments due to sin.’ Temporal refers to things pertaining to this world. The last disharmony, the disharmony with God, is called eternal punishment, because it refers to things pertaining to the eternal world with God.
All four of these disharmonies are healed by Christ. The only healing we experience fully in this life, however, is from eternal punishment–or disharmony with God. That’s why Christ is the One Mediator between God and man.
It should be clear that we don’t experience a full healing from the temporal disharmonies/punishments as Christians, because we still struggle. We experience suffering, illness, catastrophes, and even death. Yet, Christ heals these problems, too, it’s just that we don’t experience the full healing in the temporal sphere until He returns.
Until then, we are called to struggle for His Kingdom. As St. Paul puts it, “But we have this treasure (the healing grace of salvation) in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying around in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.” (2 Cor 7-10)
To overcome these temporal disharmonies, we are called to cooperate with Christ’s power in grace so as to bring about the healing with Him in these areas. This is why we are called to pray, fast, and alms give so as to forgive our neighbor’s sins and be forgiven, and to receive the reward promised by our heavenly Father that we will once again regain temporal peace/harmony on earth and in heaven (Mt 6:5-23).
What happens if we die and are reconciled to God (the eternal punishment for sin), but have not entirely cooperated with grace to overcome the temporal punishments for sin? St. Paul gives us the answer in 1 Cor 3: 12-16. He says that after death, our works will be tested “as though by fire, and the fire will test what kind of work we have done,” and we will suffer loss, though we will still be saved (1 Cor 3:13-15).
This is a very clear passage regarding the purification (which we call purgatory) that takes place after death. This fire purifies us from our temporal disharmonies mentioned above, if we die without having them entirely purified in this life.
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You are correct. We will agree to disagree. I will cease and desist...sorry for the trouble.
So an act of faith is not enough. This is what I have been saying. You are halfway home.
What is so demanding about rituals?
Not sure why you thought saying hello to someone named Mary would help me but if it makes you feel better.
With all due respect I think you’re missing the point NYer was making. The cross was purgatory for the repentant theif because it served to purge St Dismas (yes he’s considered a saint!) of his attachment to sin.
Most of us will not endure such purgation on earth but make no mistake one way or another, we must literally be as pure as Christ to enter heaven, so we will endure such suffering if we do not become detached from a desire to sin on earth.
His Sacrifice removes the penalty of sin (which is death in Hell) and original sin itself and any confessed sins in the future. But it doesnt remove our attachment to sin our propensity to sin. This is still part of our fallen nature and our daily struggle (to not only not sin but have no desire to sin).
This too is a gift from God. We can’t even remove our own desire to sin this is how pathetic we are. Fortunately we do receive gifts from God to help us fight such disordered desires, and this is the cross we are all called to carry. To pick up and follow him. Our cross, our particular burden of burdens here in this life are to help us realize Christ is our one desire. Not our sinful desires. Christ is who we desire nothing else. Our cross is to help us realize this as St Dismas did. This is why we are told to pick up our cross and follow him.
So in this way it is traditionally believed St Dismas was purged of his desire to sin by not only recognizing Jesus for who he is (accepting him as his savior) but also suffering with Him for his own sin, allowing his cross to purge himself of his desire to sin and to focus his desire on Christ. Indeed, imagine how much St Dismas must have desired Christ! Thus he became as pure as Christ at the moment of his death and thus was “with Him in paradise).
In this way many have said for example Teri Shiavo suffered and went through her own purgation on earth. Or, Mother Angelica may be going through a purgation now. A form of suffering so great that no sin can tempt, a suffering so great that only Christ is desired. This is purgation. This is purgatory.
We will suffer so greatly either here and now or in the hereafter. It is our choice.
Already by 90AD most of them were already told they were at risk of being sent to hell. Catholicism simply expanded on the errors of those "christians". If you think number of years impresses true believers think again.
“...Many of us were cradle catholics...”
They will have more to answer for at the Judgment, since they are now a step beyond material heresy (heresy through ignorance) and are now formal heretics - those who knew and rejected the Truth.
Just because a person doesn’t understand the Truth the first time around doesn’t mean that the Truth isn’t there and it is now OK to embrace late arriving heresies. Many of us did not understand the Truth at first - the 60’s were a time of extremely obscure catechization mixed with pop psychology in many dioceses. The decades after followed suit in many cases. However, the Truth being poorly taught doesn’t cause it to not be the Truth.
I was a cradle catholic who did not understand doctrines correctly until my 30’s when I began to read scripture. Then I was a “re vert”, and did not embrace heresy and instead read further into Catholic apologetics. John Henry Newman is an excellent place to begin.
John 6 clearly refers to the eucharist and cannot be twisted otherwise without mental gymnastics.
Protestants who do not understand Catholic Doctrine have no business trying to address Catholic topics because they do not have the fullness of the Truth. They are blind to the proper meaning of scripture.
2 Peter 1:20 and 2 Peter 3:16 condemns private interpretation
2 Thessalonians 2:14 clearly refers to oral tradition being handed down.
The Jewish people have always taught through word of mouth (tradition) AND the written word. The early Christians did not suddenly change this concept, especially since the bible wasn’t written right away.
All true.
I’ll also say a prayer for you.
Not according to scripture.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.…
You are aware that those are not used in worship of God?
YOPIOS.
Scriptures can work both ways. That is why it is just better not to argue, period.
1 Corinthians 10:31
Now please show where wedding rings, Maids of honor, best men, and wedding toasts where used in "serving their gods".
And still here you are.
Scripture is YOPIOS to you? Wow!
Well that's nice of you as long as it's not to some pagan "queen of heaven" or one of the other demi gods Catholics have.
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