Posted on 11/02/2014 3:14:08 PM PST by NYer
On All Souls Day, the Catholic Church offers prayers and liturgies for the repose of the dead. As Catholics, we are called by the Church to focus our spiritual energies to assist these poor souls, who, though saved, are still in need of purification. Our prayers and sacrifices assist them in this process of purification as a means used by God to communicate purifying grace to them. After all, He is the vine, we are the branches so that He produces his fruits of grace through us.
The practice of praying for the dead actually predates Christianity. In 2 Maccabees 12: 41-45, Judas offers prayers and sacrifices for his fallen comrades to make “atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.” Some argue that the books of the Maccabees are not inspired scripture. Leaving that argument aside for now, we can at least look at them as historical books detailing accepted pious practices of God’s people some 300 years before Christ.
If that is the only place in the Bible where we find any reference to purgatory, many Protestant Christians argue, then that is a weak support for such a practice. Fortunately, we know as Catholics that all of our doctrines are indeed found in the Word of God, as is the doctrine of Purgatory. Hence what follows is a biblical understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory.
The book of Genesis recounts for us the far reaching repercussions of Adam and Eve’s disobedience in the Garden. This sin, we find, brought about four consequences which I will summarize here (Gen 3: 16-24):
First, their sin brings about disharmony between persons. God tells Eve that both her relationship to her husband and children will now be characterized by pain and mistrust (Gen 3:16). Further, God has to make garments for man and woman because now, as the text implies, they feel shame (Gen 3:21).
Second, their sin brings about disharmony between man and creation. God tells Adam that he will produce the fruit of the earth with toil and difficulty (Gen 3: 17). Even the ground itself is cursed because of their sin (Gen 3: 17).
Third, their sin brings about disharmony between man and himself. He no longer has spiritual control over his body; thus, his body returns to the dust of the ground (Gen 3: 19). Adam and Eve are no longer able to receive everlasting life (Gen 3: 22).
Lastly and most importantly, sin brings disharmony between God and man. This consequence results in mistrust and fear of God (Gen 3: 10), and, worse, spiritual death. Without God, neither physical nor spiritual life can be sustained (Gen 3: 19, 24).
The first three disharmonies mentioned above are called ‘Temporal punishments due to sin.’ Temporal refers to things pertaining to this world. The last disharmony, the disharmony with God, is called eternal punishment, because it refers to things pertaining to the eternal world with God.
All four of these disharmonies are healed by Christ. The only healing we experience fully in this life, however, is from eternal punishment–or disharmony with God. That’s why Christ is the One Mediator between God and man.
It should be clear that we don’t experience a full healing from the temporal disharmonies/punishments as Christians, because we still struggle. We experience suffering, illness, catastrophes, and even death. Yet, Christ heals these problems, too, it’s just that we don’t experience the full healing in the temporal sphere until He returns.
Until then, we are called to struggle for His Kingdom. As St. Paul puts it, “But we have this treasure (the healing grace of salvation) in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying around in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.” (2 Cor 7-10)
To overcome these temporal disharmonies, we are called to cooperate with Christ’s power in grace so as to bring about the healing with Him in these areas. This is why we are called to pray, fast, and alms give so as to forgive our neighbor’s sins and be forgiven, and to receive the reward promised by our heavenly Father that we will once again regain temporal peace/harmony on earth and in heaven (Mt 6:5-23).
What happens if we die and are reconciled to God (the eternal punishment for sin), but have not entirely cooperated with grace to overcome the temporal punishments for sin? St. Paul gives us the answer in 1 Cor 3: 12-16. He says that after death, our works will be tested “as though by fire, and the fire will test what kind of work we have done,” and we will suffer loss, though we will still be saved (1 Cor 3:13-15).
This is a very clear passage regarding the purification (which we call purgatory) that takes place after death. This fire purifies us from our temporal disharmonies mentioned above, if we die without having them entirely purified in this life.
Welcome home!
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God:
He did and through his death won for us access to the grace that will actually transform us and remake us in the full image and likeness of the God who is love. We do not merit our salvation by any works of ours but receive sanctification (actual not just imputed) through the merits of Jesus Christ.
Catholics believe that we are responsible for our sins.
But thank you for your own private interpretation of scripture YOPIOS
There’s a lump in my throat. Thanks for your testimony.
**So Catholics are the same as Universalists. Everyone except really bad people get to heaven**
Not true.
Why Easter? Why not now? According to the Catholics around here, if you were to die in a car wreck on the way to the chapel, well too bad for you. Off to Purgatory or some other place.
Trying to turn that into a place called purgatory is not tenable...
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This is a very clear passage regarding the purification (which we call purgatory) that takes place after death. This fire purifies us from our temporal disharmonies mentioned above, if we die without having them entirely purified in this life.
Their is no purification that takes place...That's a perversion of what the scripture says...The fire burns up and removes any record of our bad works...As one can see, it says that a person's works will be go thru the fire which will reveal the good works but burn up the bad works...
If a person's has works that were not destroyed, he will receive rewards...But if a person's works were fruitless, your effort was in vain and your loss is that there will be no rewards...
No where does it say you will be punished if your works burn up...No where does it say that the fire will touch you...The fire tries the works...That means every pope or Saint in the Catholic religion has to go thru the same fiery trial...
And then what??? You are saved 'so as by fire'...How's that happen??? When all your works are run thru the fire and the bad works are burned up, they no longer exist...They are burned up...God will see no bad works...
There is certainly no time frame involved...Years or centuries in purgatory is a complete fabrication by your religion...
So here's your other 'proof verse',
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
A farthing is money...It is not prayers...It is not time served...It's cold hard cash...This is how your religion got its wealth, by bilking the money and property from those who fell under its spell...
The verse is speaking about anyone who has anything against you, e.g. a brother...
This verse is in the same context as 'pluck out your eye if it offends you, you are a murderer if you hate your brother and you'll go to hell if you call someone a fool...
There is no faith nor grace involved...It is written to pork abstaining, Sabbath worshiping, animal sacrificing Jews under the Law...Not a Christian in sight...
AND, it says nothing about death or judgment...These are live people, not someone standing or kneeling at judgment...
There is no purgatory there...
The idea of purgatory destroys the purpose of the Cross...More specifically, it destroys the reason Jesus died on the Cross...
So tell me, why did Jesus die if you still have to pay for your sins???
There is no record of the repenting of his sins...The other guy on the cross went to hell so we know that had nothing to do with it...He didn't just acknowledge Jesus...What he did was BELIEVE...And it wasn't purgatory...
But thank you for your own private interpretation of scripture YOPIOS
Catholics also believe that it all because of grace. So where would anyone be able to boast?
Boasting of the supremacy of the Roman Catholic church...over just filthy sinners saved by faith in Lord Jesus Christ’s atoning and finished sacrifice and, by the grace of God, who receive the unearned gift of eternal life and seal of the Holy Spirit just as valid and true as did the first Jewish believers, Peter and Paul included...before the RCC was invented.
Don’t Catholics often “boast” that they “gave us the Bible?”
You've been told how many times now???
The bible that we believe, the written words of God condemns your religion to hell...Your religion condemns (or at least used to) non Catholics to hell...We believe the words of God over what your religion claims and we want to warn you people as well as those who are searching for Jesus...
Philippians. See my post #62. He also wrote the following:
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.… So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Cor. 13:1-3, 13)Faith without love is nothing. We even have the words of our Lord:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matt. 17:21-32)If you still do evil you will not enter the kingdom of heaven no matter how often you cry "Lord, Lord." And what is the will of the heavenly Father? What is the first commandment?
When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, and one of them [a scholar of the law] tested him by asking, “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.” (Matt. 22:34-40)Love, not faith, is the central message of the Gospel. Faith is indispensable but is only the gateway to love. As Saint James stated:
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:17)While Protestants claim that salvation by faith alone is base purely on Scripture, in fact it is based on the human tradition started by the Reformers. Sola fide cannot be found anywhere in the Bible and just ignores those passages that go against it.
Yes, the one sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross won us our salvation. In this we all agree. But notice that by this we are sanctified, i.e. made holy, not just justified. Is there any sinfulness, any selfishness, still lurking in your soul? If so, then this process of sanctification won by the price of the Cross is not yet complete.
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