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To: fatnotlazy

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/my_top_ten.html
James 2:24
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
In addition to their belief in the Bible alone (”sola Scriptura”), most Protestants believe that all one has to do is accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior in order to be justified by God (justification is the process by which man, moved by grace, turns toward God and away from sin, and accepts God’s forgiveness and righteousness). Thus, most Protestants believe that one is justified and saved by His faith in Christ alone (called “sola Fide” or Faith alone). But if this is true, then why does James say that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone?
James says this because we are justified, and ultimately saved, through both our faith and works, and not just faith alone. In fact, the only place in the Bible where the phrase “faith alone” appears is in James 2:24 where it says we are justified by works and NOT by faith alone. So the Bible never teaches anywhere that we are justified, saved, or anything else, by faith alone. While on its face the Catholic position seems obvious, the theology of faith and works in the matter of salvation is actually quite complicated, and has been one of the main sources of division between Catholicism and Protestantism. Hence, a couple of points should be made to address the controversy and clarify Catholic teaching.
First, Catholics ultimately believe that we are saved, not by faith or works, but by Jesus Christ and Him alone. Jesus Christ’s death and Resurrection is the sole source of our justification (being in a right relationship with God) and salvation (sharing in God’s divine life). But as a result of Christ’s death and resurrection, we are now able to receive God’s grace. Grace is God’s own divine life which He infuses into our souls. It is what Adam initially lost for us, and Christ won back for us. This grace initially causes us to seek God and to believe in Him (the “faith” part). Non-Catholics generally stop here.
But God desires us to respond to His grace by putting our faith into action (the “works” part). This is why Jesus always taught about our salvation in the context of what we actually did during our earthly lives, and not how much faith we had (”whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did to Me.” Matthew 25:40,45). When Jesus teaches about His second coming where He will separate the sheep from the goats, He bases salvation and damnation upon what we actually did (”works”), whether righteous or evil. Matthew 25:31-46. In James 2:14-26, James is similarly instructing us to put our faith into action by performing good works, and not just giving an intellectual assent of faith. James says such “faith apart from works is dead.” James 2:17,26.
So we must do more than accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. Even the demons believe Jesus is Savior, and yet “they tremble.” James 2:19. We must also do good works. Faith is the beginning of a process that leads us toward justification, but faith alone never obtains the grace of justification. Faith and works acting together achieve our justification. Saint Paul says it best when he writes that we need “faith working in love.” Galatians 5:6. We are not justified and saved by faith alone.
Secondly, it is important to distinguish between the “works” James taught about in James 2:24 and the “works of the law” Saint Paul taught about in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9. Protestants generally confuse James’ “good works” from Paul’s “works of the law” when they attempt to prove that “works” are irrelevant to justification and salvation. The “works of the law” Paul taught about in Ephesians 2:8-9 and elsewhere referred to the Mosaic law and their legal system that made God obligated to reward them for their works. They would thus “boast” about their works by attributing their works to themselves. Cf. Rom. 4:2; Eph. 2:9. Saint Paul taught that, with the coming of Christ, the Mosaic (moral, legal, and ceremonial) law which made God a debtor to us no longer justified a person. Instead, Paul taught that we are now justified and saved by grace (not legal obligation) through faith (not works of law). Eph. 2:5,8. Hence, we no longer “boast” by attributing our works to ourselves. We attribute them to God who gives everything to us freely by His grace.
Therefore, we are no longer required to fulfill the “works of law,” but to fulfill the “law of Christ” Gal. 6:2. This is why Paul writes that the “doers of the law (of Christ)” will be justified. Rom. 2:13. Of course, the “works of the law” Paul wrote about in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10 and Eph. 2:8-9 have nothing to do with the “good works” James is teaching in James 2:24 or the “law” Paul is teaching about in Rom. 2:13 (because they are part of the same Word of God which can never contradict itself).
In summary, based on the Scriptures, the Church has taught for 2,000 years that we are justified and saved by the grace and mercy of Christ through both faith and works, and not faith alone. We are no longer in a legal system of debt where God owes us (creditor/debtor). We are now in a system of grace where God rewards our works when done with faith in Christ (Father/child). This also means that we must continue to exercise our faith and works to the end of our lives in order to be saved. This is why Jesus told us to “endure to the end” to be saved. Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Mark 13:13. This is also why Saint Paul warned us that we could even lose our salvation if we did not persevere. cf. Romans 11:20-23; 1 Corinthians 9:27. This Catholic belief contradicts the novel Protestant notion of “once saved, always saved.”


46 posted on 11/01/2014 2:13:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Your post 46 is typical of catholics taking scripture out of context. For example, have you gouged your eye out for the sins you've committed with the lust of the eyes? Of course not.

If you read James in context you will see works are a confirmation of faith as exhibited by Abraham. Would he have been saved if he hadn't been willing to offer Isaac as a sacrifice? Yes he would because God had declared him righteous because Abraham believed God.

you contradict yourself in your post. We're either saved by faith in Christ and Christ alone or we're not. Which is it?

now as Christians are we to produce fruit for the kingdom? Yes we are.

the belief you note in James 2 that the demons have is intellectual knowledge. Do they know who Christ is? You bet. Do they believe He can save/forgive them? Nope. Because they have no faith.

Do you believe Mohammed lived? Of course you do as history records he lived. Does that make you a Muslim? Nope.

can you lose your salvation? Not based on the Bible. Ephesians tells us we are sealed by the Holy Spirit who is given as a pledge of our inheritence. No where does the bible say that pledge is removed from us nor is the Holy Spirit ever removed from us.

if the catholic believes they can lose their salvation, and they do, then they best be living with the priest to beg for his forgiveness on an hourly, if not minute basis.

Christ does not intend for us to live in this state of fear. He loves us so much He has taken our sins and nailed them to the cross....where they remain today.

54 posted on 11/01/2014 2:38:40 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Salvation
We are not justified and saved by faith alone.

You'd do better to leave scripture to those who are read up on it...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

You run all that scripture together it just becomes a meaningless mess...You have to throw away a bunch of scripture just as I have posted...

Rom_4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Who is that referring to??? I'll bet you don't know, do you???

That verse refers to born again Christians...You take scripture that was written doctrinally to Jews who were still under the law and you take verses written to people who are here after the church is gone...You run them all together and just torture the doctrinal scriptures that are written to the New Testament church...

This young woman, if she is a Christian has no sin imputed to her...She is safe from condemnation...Does she sin??? Of course...Will God send her to hell for it??? Of course not...He will chastise her as a father does to his children...But he will not cast her into hell...

102 posted on 11/01/2014 7:18:05 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Salvation

Eph. 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast.”

Whenever this hot topic comes up I’m always reminded of the thief on the cross.

You are spreading a works based false gospel, much like John MacAurther does. No where in scripture does it ever mention “Lordship Salvation” “Sinner’s Prayer” or “Alter Calls”...these are all Man Made and driven to force authority over believers to comply and bow before Men allowing them to rule over you and not God. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit have been excused in the majority of churches today, only to be replaced by worldly objects of desire. bands, lighting, stage props, personal ministries etc...there are only two things God has commissioned and commanded of us to do...give the gospel message and love each other...

Many are followers of Men and their Doctrine. Many are being deceived by following popular stage preachers and their disingenuous practices, law and motives or agenda i. Today we read all kinds of stories of rich and famous stage preachers and how well they are being provided for while there flock suffers...How very sad...We never hear of the Apostles or Jesus living large

Perhaps there was a time in Brittany’s life where she was introduced to Jesus and the gospel and rejected it leading her down a path of being easily influenced to the like of orgs like CC

Let’s face it..Christian’s have a poor reputation dating way back...Isn’t it about time we got it right??

Read “I Never Knew You” by Michael Patrick Bowen

http://carm.org/are-we-saved-faith-alone-or-do-we-need-works-too


148 posted on 11/04/2014 12:05:20 PM PST by Joliexoxo
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