Posted on 10/27/2014 10:02:19 AM PDT by Colofornian
In the past six or so years I’ve written countless articles on many subjects regarding Mormonism, but there are a few subjects that continue to show up for another view and additional insight. The subject of this article is my case in point.
The first time I wrote on this subject I received many horrible reviews – all by members of the Church. The reviews that were favorable of course were from the Christians. At the request of former Mormons and Christians I was asked to write a sequel so I acquiesced – that was three years ago. Now I’m receiving more requests to write another so here I am again. Glory to God for His word, the truth and His guidance!
This time we’re taking a look at Ishmael, Moab, Laban, Emer and Neum. As you can see not all of the names are demonic, but serve as examples of the ungodliness of their names and the utter lack of information of the people involved.
How can some of these people be an ungodly people in the Bible, but a god fearing person or people with the Book of Mormon? We’ll be studying the derivatives of each, the parts they played in history and from where they originated. I pray that we all learn from this and as always, may we glorify the Lord and use it for His purpose.
Ishmael
Ishmael was not part of the everlasting covenant of God
In the Book of Mormon the sons of Lehi had been instructed by their father to go back into Jerusalem after they had fled for safety. They were to bring back the family of Ishmael in addition to taking some of Ishmael’s daughters as wives; 1 Nephi 7:1-22.
As stated in my article Nephi’s Reign it’s never been a good idea to hang with people named Ishmael. Now I don’t mean that to be rude to anyone with that name today, but biblically speaking for the Israelites, they had encountered nothing but trouble when it came to this clan. As you can see from the Book of Mormon this holds true as well, but only in part. When Nephi’s brothers began rebelling against him they had backup with Ishmael’s family giving them support. Yet as you well know, Ishmael in the Book of Mormon is someone who has come to know the Lord and is accepting of Him. The story of Ishmael in the Book of Mormon is a classic example of why the Mormon people are confused.
Matthew Henry referred to the very name of Ishmael as “ominous to all the seed of Isaac”. Now why would anyone from the tribe of Judah or Israel consort with anyone named Ishmael?
Fast forward several generations to the time of Jeremiah and we see another Ishmael in action that had learned how to carry on the traditions of his fathers. Hatred ran supreme through the land of Judah as the blood of Israel ran down the streets of Jerusalem at the time of the Babylonian captivity.
When invited to dinner by Gedaliah, Ishmael took the opportunity to murder his gracious host as well as the others in attendance which included Israelites as well as some Chaldeans. The next day wanting to smell more blood of the Israelites, he and his henchmen orchestrated a mass killing of eighty more Israelite men on their way to Jerusalem merely wanting to offer sacrifices to the Lord.
Ishmael and company went out to greet the oncoming group of worshippers, told them of the horror they “had encountered” by finding everyone dead and led the group to the walls that protected the city. This group of worshippers was no doubt men from the groups of the infamous “Lost Ten Tribes” who were scattered when their kingdom was taken over by the Assyrians about a hundred years earlier. They didn’t belong to the tribe of Benjamin or Judah yet they were indeed Israelites and that’s all Ishmael was concerned about. See Jeremiah chapters 40 and 41 for the entire fiasco between Ishmael and Gedahliah.
When the Israelites arrived, Ishmael and his band of murderous thugs killed all of them and unceremoniously dumped the corpses into the cisterns. Nice guy huh? Now why wouldn’t you just want to scoop these people up and ask if you can marry their daughters? In today’s world that’d be like a Holocaust survivor seeking out a daughter of Hitler to marry. Good grief the mere thought of it makes me shudder!
Ishmael was driven to kill because of jealousy and pride. Being of the royal family himself, Ishmael wanted Gedahliah out of the scene when he had been made governor of the region. Ishmael was afraid Gedahliah would be receiving more attention, fame and fortune than Ishmael was willing to share from the family inheritance.
So what of Ishmael and why should we care that someone who “supposedly” lived in the same time era had the same name? Should it, or does this even matter in light of eternal matters?
The reason it should matter of course is that this situation is indicative of all Mormon doctrines. Smith was a master of disguise; tweaking the truth just a fraction of reality enabled him to lead his audience down the highway to hell instead of leading the Mormon people on the Highway of Holiness. Using the name of Ishmael serves only one purpose: confusion. Our Father in Heaven assures us this is not part of His character in 1 Cor. 14:33 where Paul says; “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”
I honestly cannot think of one good reason why the leader of any so-called Jewish tribesman or prophet would want his sons to marry the daughters of Ishmael.
Additionally, God Himself had always condemned intermarrying with the Ishmaelites. (Lev. 20:1-4) Abraham sent Ishmael and his mother Hagar out to the wilderness when Sarah rejected Hagar and her son. Sarah realized that by having that part of the family around was detrimental to her son Isaac, the object of God’s covenant with mankind. Gen. 16:12 tells us that Ishmael’s hand would always be against the hand of all people and all people’s hands were against him.
The Hebrew name for Ishmael means “that God may hear” or “God hears”. The Lord told Hagar what to name the boy in addition to giving her the assurance that He indeed heard her cry to Him by acknowledging her plight. In addition to that, Hagar was even given a heads up if you will, about the way her son would behave. The boy would be a rude, wild, out of control nomad for all his life. He married an Egyptian and lived for 137 years; his descendants the Muslims claim to be his offspring. They were obviously a source of contention to the Jewish nation just as they are today as God tells us in Genesis 16:12-13. And as you can see the Lord does indeed keep His promises; the Ishmaelites are still living next to their brothers today.
Ishmael has always been the picture of an outsider – whereas Isaac is the picture of an everlasting covenant and grace. The apostle Paul tells us in Gal. 4:24-5 the only thing Hagar could ever do is to bear children in bondage.
In Gen. 24:1-5 we are told of the exchange Abraham had with his servant when he sent him out to fetch a wife for Isaac. The rules were very clear; he made the servant take an oath that he would not bring back a wife for Isaac taken from the Canaanites. How serious do you think God had to be that He’d even make sure people took oaths they wouldn’t intermarry? Additionally Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac as an inheritance; compared to the children of his concubines, he gave only gifts – Gen. 25:5-6. Is there any doubt as to how we are to regard the Ishmaelites now?
In addition to Smith putting a good light on Ishmael in the Book of Mormon we see this again in D&C 132:27-40. This section of LDS scripture is their excuse for polygamy, but as we read the text in context you are given yet another example of how Smith nonchalantly interposed his translation of the Hebrew Bible.
The Mormon will argue that “the promise” spoken of in verses 32-34 says that polygamy is the part of the Law Abraham had to obey in order to receive the promises. The promises of the Torah are much different than those of the JST (Joseph Smith Translation). In the Judeo-Christian Bible the “promise” that God gave to Abraham was a covenant that He made with Abraham through sacrifice. The promise was that Abraham and his children would be saved through obedience and devotion to the God that created them and the universe.
Polygamy was not part of the covenant. There are 613 laws that had to be observed and obeyed by man in order to receive the promise of salvation offered by God. Now if you look in Leviticus chapter eighteen and Deuteronomy chapter seventeen you’ll read where God explicitly says not to touch the skirts of your brother’s wife, et al. However, there is not one single verse in the entire Bible that condones polygamy.
D&C 132:32-34; “Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved. 33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham. 34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.”
In addition to being theologically incorrect in the interpretation of Hebrew in the Bible, Smith also has the dates wrong again. The Law wasn’t given until the time of Moses which was some 330 years after Abraham died. You can read in Exodus twelve that God begins with the ritual of the yearly Passover and then in chapter twenty the Ten Commandments are given to Moses on Mt. Sinai.
I have one more item of interest for the members of the Church. Why do you have to “enter unto the Law” if we are now living under the period of grace? Doesn’t that also negate the purpose of having a double portion because you were born into the Church?
I truly believe that Ishmael has never been nor will ever be a godly, upright, morally clean person. The Bible warns us to stay away throughout the entire Bible and leaves no wiggle room for our own interpretation. Remember 2 Peter 1:20-21 whenever you’re in doubt;
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Moab
In the far southeastern border of Utah lies one of the most beautiful places on earth. While I’m not a big fan of deserts, this area of my beloved Utah will forever remain on my list of favorite places to visit. The rock formations that jut out from the ground show their years of hard winds that have carefully etched their formations. It’s obvious the Lord went in with His fingertips directing which way the winds should blow, how long they should make their presence known and when they should stay quiet. Reds, bright oranges, yellows and browns are the predominant colors that will capture your attention and leave a marked impression on your memory banks of vacations you might take in your life here. The Lord is good that way, He always leaves us with more than we ask or expect from Him.
Just as the Lord commands your awe from the beauty and dangers of the area surrounding Moab, Utah; the oppression from Satan’s presence demands your spiritual attention while visiting the Canyonlands. For anyone who’s had to travel or live in Utah you will understand what I mean when I tell you that you can feel the oppression inside the borders of Utah. Satan is the contributing factor of spiritual desolation in the barren back hills of Utah.
I will always remember the day my family and I were driving from Seattle to Utah for a visit with my mother. About an hour west of the Utah border my daughters began arguing with each other while at the same time I began feeling the “icky feeling” inside of my stomach. Now that we’ve been saved for a few years we all know what is taking place, but without the years of experience of knowing the Lord’s presence and the fruits of the Spirit, it was frustrating. I had always attributed that feeling to “how it was being a Mormon”.
From Gen. 19:27-38 we are told of the time when Lot and his family were rescued from Sodom and Gomorrah. While Lot’s wife didn’t obey and paid the ultimate price Lot and his daughters received God’s mercy and survived the ordeal. They found themselves in a cave up in the mountains in Zoar because of Lot’s fear of tent dwelling in the city. Not turning to the Lord in his time of fear brought on a horrendous event.
While staying in the cave, Lot’s two daughters connived with each other to get their father drunk. After he became drunk they would entice him so that they could get pregnant. They were convinced there were no other men on the face of the earth. From these two nights of drunkenness came two of the most notorious problem clans for the tribe of Israel; Moab and Ammon. Having nothing but an incestuous heritage to brag about, they raised their offspring bent on the destruction of Israel.
Moab in the Hebrew means “from the mother’s father” while Ammon means “inbred”. Nice legacy to leave the family don’t you think? See the article about Ammon.
As you can imagine the Bible doesn’t have many good things to say about the Moabite people until you get to Ruth. The Moabite’s chief god was Chemosh – see for more information on him and also Genesis 14:5.
Their land was to the east of the Dead Sea and continually taken over by various tribes including that of Israel. At the end of an attempt to seize the land of Moab, Mesha king of Moab, sacrificed his own son on the city wall to his god Chemosh when he saw there was nothing left to sacrifice; 2 Kings 3:1-27.
The word Moab appears only one time in the Book of Mormon when Joseph Smith “borrowed” heavily from the book of Isaiah. This is what the dictionary of the Book of Mormon says about Moab;
“The Moabites, descendants of Lot. Their home was the country east of the valley of the Dead Sea. This name only occurs in the Book of Mormon in a quotation from the words of Isaiah (II. Nephi 21:14.)”
So I have a few questions about this as you can imagine.
1 – Why is Moab even mentioned in the Book of Mormon and what purpose did it serve?
2 – How do they (Moabites) fit in with the people of the Book of Mormon?
3 – Why would you intentionally name a town in your sacred land of Utah after an ungodly group of people? After all this isn’t a very common name!
Naming a town in your land of “Zion” after an incestuous line of people and randomly placing this name in your “sacred works” for no apparent reason should speak volumes to the reader. What are you (Joseph Smith) doing???
Laban
1 Nephi 4:2-3, 14-18; “Now behold ye know that this is true; and ye also know that an angel hath spoken unto you; wherefore can ye doubt? Let us go up; the Lord is able to deliver us, even as our fathers, and to destroy Laban, even as the Egyptians…And now, when I, Nephi, had heard these words, I remembered the words of the Lord which he spake unto me in the wilderness, saying that: Inasmuch as thy seed shall keep my commandments, they shall prosper in the land of promise.15 Yea, and I also thought that they could not keep the commandments of the Lord according to the law of Moses, save they should have the law.16 And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass.17 And again, I knew that the Lord had delivered Laban into my hands for this cause—that I might obtain the records according to his commandments.18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword.”
From the Book of Mormon dictionary it says this;
“Laban – A rich, unscrupulous and powerful Israelite of the tribe of Joseph, though a dweller in Jerusalem (B. C. 600). While Lehi and his little company were resting in the valley of Lemuel, that patriarch was commanded of the Lord to send his sons back to Jerusalem to obtain certain records that were in the possession of Laban. The records, which were engraven on plates of brass, being intimately associated with Lehi’s ancestors, were highly necessary for the welfare of his descendants when they established themselves in a new home, far from communication with any other people.”
Well, on this one the Book of Mormon got part of the information correct regarding Laban. He was rich and sometimes unscrupulous. Let’s do what is right and go to His word and a dictionary to learn more about this man.
The first thing we find out about him is that his name means “white”. The Bible tells us that he was the nephew of Abraham and in Gen 24 we find out that Laban and Rebekah were siblings. When it came time for Rebekah to marry we see that Laban and his father were the ones that betrothed her to Isaac.
Fast forward about forty years and we see that Jacob (one of Rebekah’s sons) is finding solace by running to his uncle Laban’s home where he finds Rachel and Leah.
Gen. 29:16; “And Laban had two daughters: the name of the elder was Leah, and the name of the younger was Rachel.”
Now Laban tricked Jacob into marrying his oldest daughter Leah, but Jacob was patient and worked an additional seven years at his uncle’s homestead to earn the hand of Rachel.
From reading just a few chapters in the Bible we find out there is no way that Laban was from the tribe of Joseph. Joseph would’ve been one of Laban’s grandsons!
I find the problem with this particular character in the Book of Mormon to be complex. There is no mention of another Laban in the Bible to my knowledge. Using the same character names in both books serves as another conduit to confusing the already confused people of Mormonism.
My questions are as follows:
– Why would some random Israelite be in possession of the Hebrew writings?
- Why would these “plates of brass” be written in Reformed Egyptian if Laban was an Israelite?
- Why wouldn’t a fellow Israelite give another Israelite something that would benefit all of them?
- What about the Sixth Commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”? (See 1 Nephi 4:10.)
- Why wouldn’t God tell us of writings that needed to be protected during the Babylonian takeover?
- Why was Laban living in a posh house when the rest of Jerusalem lay in utter destruction?
It’s difficult at best to swallow the story about the Laban in the Book of Mormon story. At the supposed time of this happening, King Nebuchadnezzar was campaigning up and down the Palestinian coast with his goal to take over Jerusalem. There was so much ravaging and harassment against the Israelites it’d be a tough sell to think that anyone but the kings would be rich during all of this. (2 Kings 24)
Remember what God told the inhabitants of Judah? In Jeremiah 42:12 we read that God would have compassion upon the Israelites if they stayed put in Judah and not flee to Egypt. He promised them that they would live and have children to raise, but if they left for Egypt they would surely die.
Emer
Ether 9:14; “And it came to pass that Omer began to be old; nevertheless, in his old age he begat Emer; and he anointed Emer to be king to reign in his stead.”
This was one of the strangest names I found in the Book of Mormon. The strangeness didn’t come from Smith or his made up work but what I found in my research about this name. If you do a search on the web for “Emer” you will find an art gallery in Belfast, Emer Vacuums and various blog sites with “Emer” as someone’s screen name. Then if you look up the meaning of “Emer” you’ll find this:
“The Ulstermen searched all over Ireland for a suitable wife for Cúchulainn, but he would have none but Emer. He visited her at Forgall’s house at Lusk, County Dublin, and wooed her by trading cryptic riddles with her. Emer would accept Cúchulainn as a husband, but only when his deeds justified it.”
Okay then. I mean what do you say to something as outlandish as this? And why pray tell is this some righteous person’s name in the Book of Mormon? I guess this type of thing shouldn’t surprise me, but somehow it always does. What are the odds that some off the wall Irish mythological cycle would have the same name as a king in the Book of Mormon? Does this sound like a “Reformed Egyptian” or even Jewish name to you?
From the dictionary of the Book of Mormon it says this about Emer;
“One of the early kings of the Jaredites. Two years before his death, Omer, his father, anointed him to reign in his stead. Emer was one of the best kings of his race…Emer’s was a lengthy reign; sixty-two years are mentioned; but it is not evident whether this period covers the whole of his reign or not. When he died, full of years and honor, he was succeeded by one of his numerous sons, named Coriantum, whom he had anointed king four years before his death. It is recorded of Emer that he saw the Son of Righteousness, and did rejoice and glorify in his day.”
Neum
1 Nephi 19:10; “And the God of our fathers, who were led out of Egypt, out of bondage, and also were preserved in the wilderness by him, yea, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, yieldeth himself, according to the words of the angel, as a man, into the hands of wicked men, to be lifted up, according to the words of Zenock, and to be crucified, according to the words of Neum…”
Now this name caught my attention after watching a program on television about the Mayan people and their culture. As the host of the show went about explaining the gods of this people one of the names caught my attention: Naum.
In Mayan mythology Naum is the god who invented the mind and consciousness. In the Book of Mormon Neum is a prophet that is mentioned only once in the first book of Nephi who prophesied of Christ.
Interestingly enough I found it difficult to find any information about Neum from the Mormon perspective. Everywhere I looked he was mentioned briefly and only with a few other “prophets” who supposedly prophesied of the coming Christ and each reference was the same, that being 1 Nephi 19:10.
Could it be there was no such person as Neum from the Book of Mormon times? How ironic it is that this name of all names would appear when the scholars of Mormonism claim that the people from the Book of Mormon settled in all places; Mesoamerica, the area of the Mayans! The odds of such a “coincidence” boggle the mind…
Here’s what the Book of Mormon dictionary and the Liahona had to say about him;
“NUEM – [sic] A Hebrew prophet, quoted by Nephi (I. Nephi 19:10). He prophesied that the Son of God should be crucified.”
Liahona, June 2000, pg. 18, Clyde Williams;
"Ultimately, to follow the prophets is to follow Jesus Christ. All of the Book of Mormon prophets taught of the Savior and of the need to accept and follow Him (see Jacob 7:11; Mosiah 13:33). For example:
The ancient prophets Zenos, Zenock, and Neum testified of Christ and His Atonement (see 1 Ne. 19:10).”
You’d think that if something of this magnitude were to take place that a little more than one sentence would be mentioned of this prophet! Isaiah was given miraculous words from the Lord about the coming birth of Christ in 7:14 and His death in Isaiah chapter 53. One little line from Neum and virtually nothing else is known about him or Zenos or Zenock!
– Who was this great prophet?
- Where did he come from?
- Where did he live?
- How did he die?
- What other things did he know or say?
- Did he love the people like Isaiah loved the Israelites?
- Why was he given the name “Neum”?
I find these names to be so outrageous and far-fetched that it’s impossible to give them a moment’s time of serious contemplation in favor of being credible. As a stark contrast, let’s look at the Old Testament prophet Isaiah. His prophecies were big, his heart broke for his people and we have some background information about him!
The name Isaiah means Yahweh saves and he ministered in Judah from about 740 to 701 BC. He was married and had two sons. Isaiah became a martyr when he refused to retract his prophecies of judgment and was sawn in two. This is what Holman Bible dictionary has to say about his ministry and the time he served;
“…lived during the reigns of the Judean kings Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, and perhaps the first years of Manasseh. He was contemporary with the last five kings of Israel: Menahem, Pekahiah, Pekah, and Hosea. The tragic fall of Samaria to the Assyrian King Sargon II in 722 B.C. occurred during his ministry…the son of Amoz, was born in Judah, no doubt in Jerusalem, about 760 B.C. He enjoyed a significant position in the contemporary society and had a close relationship with the reigning monarchs.”
The list of what this man did is extensive, suffice it to say that you could spend eternity learning about him and the paltry story of Neum pales in comparison.
If you’re LDS I would ask that you just stop and think about these differences and think on the ways that God truly supplies for us compared to the lack of insight with the Book of Mormon.
With Love in Christ;
Michelle
Was commenting on your “even more pleasant and forgiving” bit about “RC”.
Oh...that.
I got the Marty McFly part but...you’re just too good for me.
Thank you for the clarification. It’s been at least fifteen years since I read through the books. Memory here is not quite what it used to be.
Overall, I found the books very inspiring and had no problems with their wisdom.
Unless you meant the one and only original Martin Luther his self.
Sorry to say, yes I have had them in me in the past.
When you do this work you are bound to get stung occasionally just to keep you on your toes and focused upon God for your strength. It’s part of the learning process of being a servant to our Father.
I feel them more than I hear them and I hear them more than I see them. But all three have occurred at different times for me. Prayer is the best tool as it is not me doing the work but the Holy Spirit working through me. All I must do is surrender as my strength comes through my weakness. If I am full of myself then I am in trouble.
high demonic spirits.... “demons get high?”
LOL... thank you for the humorous interpretation to teach me to be more precise in my selection of words.
High as in there is a hierarchy in the dark angelic world just as their is in the Angels of the Light. In this utilization I merely meant “High” in the level within the hierarchy of command is high or toward the top. True demons are up pretty high up in the command structure while most dark angels are merely misguided earthbound spirits that were recruited and live in fear of the Light.
Ha! Yes, Luther, not McFly. :)
mark
He really doesn't want to, his wife doesn't want him to, his family doesn.... yada yada yada.
But when the Lord Speaks again; he will remember his covenants and his destiny and will, reluctantly, once again unto the breach.
Have at it!
Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.
1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.
2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.
4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.
5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.
6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.
7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.
8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.
9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.
10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.
11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.
12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.
13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.
14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.
15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.
16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.
17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.
18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.
19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.
20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.
21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.
22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.
23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.
24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.
25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.
26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.
27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.
28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.
29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.
34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15
And yet the BOOK says...
Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.
No...
Ok,,, know what?
I mean no what?
T.P. I'm sure I've pointed out what I am about to say to you & many other FREEPERs. But I will start it out with a fresh approach...and then repeat what I've said for newbies on board...or those who stumble upon this thread via some Internet search:
In any warfare, attacks from the air or the sea or the ground are all weighed. As to which one constituted a greater threat when and where say--during WWII -- depended upon the year, the month, the place, etc.
Just because the U.S. initially gave greater weight to fighting Japan in 1942, didn't mean the U.S. necessarily thought Japan was more of a threat (overall) than Germany. And, as we saw, the Silent Generation rose up to show their ability to multi-task not only on multiple fronts, but multiple national enemies.
Some FREEPERs -- apparently proponents like yourself -- somehow can't seem to imagine how FREEPERs or Evangelicals could possibly oppose Mormonism, cults in general, liberalism, and Islam simultaneously. Somehow, that ability to multi-task seems beyond you (or others).
What I've repeatedly said on these threads:
Only a fool thinks the "brush fire" here on earth is the three-alarm, city-wide meltdown that hell represents.
CNN, don't we take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ? Who are we to follow when it comes to setting cultural priorities? Jesus and the apostle Paul? or some anti-multi-tasking FREEPERS?
Here's Jesus:
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)
So does Jesus say, "fear the liberals?" (No)
Does Jesus say "fear the Muslims?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.
As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:
"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)
Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)
Tell me something, T.P....: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"
I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to your guesswork based upon "disagreeing with" those willing to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints (Jude 3)
(Can't tell with your post if you're referencing yourself & a need for you to get "psyched up"...or if you're implying that the purposes of these threads are due to a "in case Mitt runs" basis)
If, the latter was the basis of your comment, The OTHER WORLD Series has run now for about four years every Halloween season. And the purpose behind that is to point to the occultic origin and occultic practices and the Magic Worldview behind Mormonism's roots.
Well, First of all, please note my response to T.P. Pole. It's not an "either-or" proposition. We thankfully, don't have to choose your all or nothing scenario of somehow as the Universal Church of Jesus Christ only being able to fight a one-front war (spiritual or otherwise).
Otherwise, we'd have to start clipping passages like Jude 3, like 2 Corinthians 10:3-5, like Titus 1:9-10, and numerous others about the need to defend the truth and to take on heresy (2nd John, 3rd John, Rev. 2, Rev. 3, etc.) -- and just conclude, "Well, hey, Ravenwolf told us these passages aren't relevant on the spiritual warfare front anymore. We've got 'enough to worry' about with sexual aberations, unique family configurations, and Islam!"
Place ark 3
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