Posted on 10/25/2014 12:57:30 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne
PITTSBURGH Eighty-eight former students who were sexually molested by a Franciscan friar who worked as an athletic trainer at a Catholic high school have settled their legal claims for $8 million, according to two attorneys who represent more than half the victims.
(Excerpt) Read more at theledger.com ...
Riiiigggghhhht.
God says:
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God:
But Catholics say:
The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.[Cardinal Newman - Development of Christian Doctrine, pg 373]
It's astonishing how regardless of the evidence they come back and say the same things which totally contradict the evidence.
Jesus said.....
Matthew 23:1-12 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.
They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
And the typical defense is comparing to other apostates as if somehow that makes it less bad. Is it any wonder the current pope seems to be drifting toward inclusion.
"Crimen sollicitationis" had nothing to do with secular criminal or civil courts. Nothing. The whole thing deals with Canonical courts and a very narrow, particular category of canonical violations.
The whole hubbub about "Crimen sollicitationis" was fomented by the BBC in 2006 when they stupidly made a huge category mistake: they didn't realize that it had no applicability to secular law.
Here is the 1962 document "Crimen Sollicitationis" referenced by the BBC Panorama documentary. It's clear that this refers to the crime of soliciting in the course of a sacramental Confession. Only that. Nothing else. Not sexual abuse in general, not dealing with children in particular. Just what happened DURING a sacramental confession, which would not even necessarily, in every instance, be illegal in civil law. (For instance, soliciting fornication with an adult is a filthy sin, but not a crime in civil law.)
Nothing new here: the Catholic Church maintains the confidentiality of the accuser, the accused, and the Sacrament of Confession itself (which it is has always been canonically obliged to do) when within her own courts.
Far from constituting a cover-up, it actually requires investigation and prosecution.
It looked to me at the time (2006) like BBC was just trying to put a hit on Pope Benedict XVI in the aftermath of the Regensberg controversy when they were mad at the him for his non-PC critique of Islamic violence.
It is important to look at what the letters and texts actually said, as contrasted to what you think they said.
On the contrary, it is unjust --- it is rash judgment --- to interpret texts by imputing the worst possible motivation, and to stick to that despite a sound and knowledgeable refutation.
Both Crimen S and the Ratzinger/CDF letter of 2001 deal with laicization of a priest for using the confessional for any form of criminal solicitation. No canon law requires silence in criminal proceedings; no canon law forbids, or could forbid, legal prosecution in a civil or criminal court. That is is distinction which seems to elude a lot of people.
This line of argument died down within a few years of BBC's "expose" when it became embarrassingly clear that they had bungled the whole thing in a very basic way.
I'm not going to go back through 8 years of papers to document this.
If you actually want to understand this, you need to read accounts by somebody who grasps the basics of canon law. The most accessible stuff, as I remember, --- at least, the place to start --- would be articles by George Weigel, John Allen, and Philip Lawler.
If this had constituted an actual obstruction of justice, international criminal courts would have shut down whole Catholic Church. I remember that Frances Kissling, then heading the fraudulent, pro-abortion "Catholics for Choice," (then called "Catholics for a Free Choice," funded by The Turner Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, and -- oh yeah, the Playboy Foundation) demanded that they do so.
But it didn't happen. Gee. Wonder why.
That's the part I find most salient.
It doesn’t matter in the sense it doesn’t affect me. I will however expose the hypocrisy and error so others can see the truth. I view the Catholic Church as the most dangerous religion on the planet. Just enough truth to draw in those who have not been in the scripture.
"The best I can come up with"...That's an odd way of putting it. Many FR Protestants take a perverse delight in abuses that occur in the Catholic Church, and point to it as evidence that the Catholic Church is foul and corrupt. It just doesn't fit the narrative certain people love to spout that abuse occurs more in Protestant Churches, does it?
Cynical Bear finally concluded, "It really doesn’t matter to me what they say."
This has become evident, which is why this discussion has become unproductive.
I hope that at some point our inner resources of patience, kindness, and a facility for reasoning together will, with God's grace, overcome the "obsession with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, and useless wranglings."
St. Paul warned St. Timothy about all that.
I regret and apologize to Our Lord for being drawn into anything that contributes to strife among Christians.
I pray you have a good night.
How many cults post notices in their buildings and on their public websites saying in no uncertain terms “if you see one of our people abusing kids, call the cops, call Child Protective Services, then call us”? How many legitimate religious organizations, for that matter?
Doing so would eliminate a lot of headach’s they're having over these crimes being committed. The church is a Government and like politicians operates the same within it's leadership. When you look at the catholic church as a 'political entity' then many things make sense which would not be so if it were lead by real Christians.
The problem catholics have is they remain convinced the catholic church is really a church.....rather like Islamists think they're ideology is a religion. Both mask the truth by wearing religious garb...and their followers want it that way.
I explained that to you. Please don't imply it means anything other then that. Its unbecoming.
The catholic church is noted for “writing” many things and putting out notices....rather like our Government when it makes trades and deals and uses lots of “notices” for things they never carry out.
Once they post something the people think it’s a done deal......when in fact it’s another stall on what needs to be ‘done’. But the people happily then can say...well the church did this and that...when in fact the problems persist.
I think the Catholic Church is actually more dangerous to souls. They include just enough truth to draw people away from God's truth.
I believe that you may be thinking of the following threads, and two in particular:
In 1922, the Vatican promulgated an instruction to do with what it called crimen solicitationis (the crime of solicitation within the confessional) and what it called the ‘‘worst crime’’ - the sexual abuse of children. The document was issued in Latin. No authoritative version was produced in English. The document was circulated only to bishops and under terms of strict secrecy....Other threads that discuss crimen solicitationis:
....The 1922 and 1962 Vatican instructions on dealing with allegations of clerical child sex abuse demanded absolute secrecy in the conduct of investigations. The secrecy was so pervasive that, to some, it seemed to demand that the complaint also be kept secret from the state authorities. Canon 1341 states that the bishop is to ‘‘start a judicial administrative procedure, for the imposition or the declaration of penalties, only when he perceives that neither by fraternal correction nor reproof, nor by any methods of pastoral care, can the scandal be sufficiently repaired, justice restored, and the offender reformed’’.
-- from the thread Vatican guilty of unholy compassion for paedophilesThe report by the independent Commission of Investigation, headed by Judge Yvonne Murphy, looked specifically at the handling of some 325 abuse claims in the Archdiocese of Dublin during the period from January 1975 to May 2004.
"The Dublin Archdiocese's preoccupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid-1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the church and the preservation of its assets," said the report. "All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities. The archdiocese did not implement its own canon law rules and did its best to avoid any application of the law of the state"....
-- from the thread Pope calls Irish church leaders to Vatican to discuss abuse report
"Crimen sollicitationis" had nothing to do with secular criminal or civil courts. Nothing. The whole thing deals with Canonical courts and a very narrow, particular category of canonical violations.
I never said it does, but when the Vatican tells people to hush us under the thread of ex-communication, that's an abuse of power and authority.
Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection
The Vatican instructed Catholic bishops around the world to cover up cases of sexual abuse or risk being thrown out of the Church.
The Observer has obtained a 40-year-old confidential document from the secret Vatican archive which lawyers are calling a 'blueprint for deception and concealment'. One British lawyer acting for Church child abuse victims has described it as 'explosive'.
The 69-page Latin document bearing the seal of Pope John XXIII was sent to every bishop in the world. The instructions outline a policy of 'strictest' secrecy in dealing with allegations of sexual abuse and threatens those who speak out with excommunication.
They also call for the victim to take an oath of secrecy at the time of making a complaint to Church officials. It states that the instructions are to 'be diligently stored in the secret archives of the Curia [Vatican] as strictly confidential. Nor is it to be published nor added to with any commentaries.'
Far from constituting a cover-up, it actually requires investigation and prosecution.
So when are we going to hear about the prosecution part of the sex crimes of the Catholic clergy?
All I keep getting told is *Once a priest, always a priest*.
The current teaching of the Catholic Church is that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.
can't help your Catholic bashing can you??? The cases among Catholic clergy are miniscule when compared to the protestant clergy. However, when it's the Catholics, you can sue an archdiocese...when it's a protestant, you have to sue an individual parish and there are no big bucks there.I don't justify the homosexual activity among any men and youngsters, but that's what they are...so called "chicken hawks" looking for young male prey.....not paedophiles.......I Think that I have pointed that out to you before.
there are none...they don't have the authority from Christ to do so.
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