Posted on 10/08/2014 7:27:34 AM PDT by fishtank
Jason Stellman’s Unmitigated Disaster
Rome never satisfies. It can’t. All the pomp and circumstance, all the liturgical fanfare, can never truly answer to the true needs of man. Since Rome has abandoned the gospel of grace and replaced it with a synergistic man-centered sacramentalism, she will never be able to offer to men anything but distractions, never true answers, to his real need.
I feel for those who, in their wandering through the various man-made religions, find themselves trudging over the Tiber. I know so many who have found their way out of Rome, some because they have been enlightened by the Spirit and brought to the truth, and some because they simply tire of the relentless process of sacramental forgiveness. But I will be perfectly honest: if you knowingly, purposefully submit yourself to Romanism, fully warned of its consequences and nature, well, once you find out that repetitive sacrifices and smells and bells eventually lose their novelty and thrill, you have no one to blame but yourself. And when you made that decision as a part of an act of denying the gospel of grace, abandoning the sufficiency of Scripture, the sufficiency of the singular atoning work of Christ, etc., I truly cannot find any sympathy in my heart for you when you begin to reap what you were warned, clearly, you would sow.
(Excerpt) Read more at aomin.org ...
Of course Jesus is Divine...You guys seem to forget or never realized that Jesus couldn't go to heaven in his human body...No more than we can go to heaven in our human body...
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
It does NOT say He will be like us...
You may think Jesus is sitting up there in a robe, with long blond hair and blue eyes, the spittin' image of his mother Mary...
But John the apostle saw Jesus and here's his description...
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Clearly this is not the same human like Jesus that John used to hang with in his youth...No doubt Jesus has a body with a human shape...And we know that Jesus was born in the image of a human...
The bible never says God/Jesus was created in our image...We are created in his/their image...God was not born in the flesh...God became manifest in the flesh...
Our body is just a shell that we run around in...The real 'us' is inside our body...
Mary provided a temporary human body for Jesus to live in...When Jesus died, he received a new body...One that doesn't bleed...One that can go thru walls...
But no, I don't believe Jesus has a human body like ours...Jesus has a glorified, heavenly body...The same type of glorified, heavenly body his mother Mary will have when her body gets to heaven...
Too many non-Catholics don't understand either time and eternity or God's eternal now.
Sounds like human philosophy as opposed to anything biblical...
If you think that God is outside of time, or both inside and outside of time, that's human philosophy -- numerous writers.
You can't avoid it, unless you avoid the sort of reason you need to argue against it.
I'm not denying human philosophy...My point is that the Catholic religion has no inside track on how God views time (Too many non-Catholics don't understand either time and eternity or God's eternal now)...It's just a guess...
So it's really not how God views time but how Catholics portray God's view of time...And you don't even have to believe it but you must accept it for your daily Eucharist/sacrifice to work...
“Of course Jesus is Divine...You guys seem to forget or never realized that Jesus couldn’t go to heaven in his human body...No more than we can go to heaven in our human body...”
If Jesus didn’t go to heaven in his human body, where is it? Basement of the Vatican? :-D
Plus you still have not answered the question, if Jesus is God and God is all powerful and Jesus was born of a woman, who raised him and nurtured him, can we assume he loved her in a way that was both human and divine? And with such love, wouldn’t he have 1. created her without sin and 2. brought her body and soul to heaven? If I had the power to do that for my mom, gone now for 15 years, I would do that. Who wouldn’t?
If only you guys would read scripture, the written words of God...
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Just as Jesus did...Jesus had an earth, human body...He now has a spiritual body...
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
After Jesus was raised, he appeared to still have an earthy, human body...One that didn't bleed and was able to walk thru walls...That is not the human body he was born with...That human body was just for appearances...
Normally Catholics normally don't read posted scripture...It would behoove you to read this...
Of course not...Again, it's a matter of scripture...
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
God can not be tempted...God can't even look at sin...
Heb_4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb_2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
If Jesus mother was born sinless, perfect, Jesus would not nor could not have endured temptation...When Jesus saw a good looking harlot, he noticed it...No doubt Jesus considered getting drunk a number of times...And being human, probably the toughest temptation Jesus faced was chosing not to cause great bodily harm or death for those who were beating him during the 'passion'...Imagine the restraint...
No, Mary could not possibly have been sinless...Jesus need a normal, marked with original sin mother in order to be fully human...
2. brought her body and soul to heaven? If I had the power to do that for my mom, gone now for 15 years, I would do that. Who wouldn’t?
If I was Jesus??? No...
Since Jesus knew his mother would end up in heaven anyway, she had other children to take care of (whether you believe it or not)...Plus, Jesus needed her on earth as another witness...
God tells us to honor your parents...Surely Jesus did that...But again ignoring your religion's dogma and going with what God actually tells is the only way to go...
I would guess that you don't really understand the love of God...God loves his spiritual brothers, mothers and sisters more than he loves flesh and blood...Even his own...None of Jesus' brothers, sisters, mother, cousins or kin of any kind will go to heaven unless he becomes the God of their lives...
I come to Whitehead and his kind (in a protestant seminary) with as open a mind as I can muster, and it just doesn't add up for me.
But I consider Plato's and Aristotle's arguments, and they are coherent. And not only coherent in themselves, but coherent with Scripture — Aristotle more than Plato.
So the notion of eternity comprehending time comports with the whole “unmoved mover” argument, which I find persuasive. And by “persuasive” I don't mean that I kind of like it but that that the reasoning from what we all observe — that things change, to an unchanging thing which is the first cause seems the best explanation I have encountered.
And not only that, but the attempted refutations don't address the argument. A rubber ball has the potential within itself too become a gooey mess. BUT that potential must be activated by something outside itself, or it would already be a gooey mess. We start there and, as far as I can see, we end up with an unmoved mover which is outside time. It's an argument which takes pages. But it adds up.
And there's the problem of the supremacy of God yet his being subject to time, so that even God has to wait. Those who deny eternity and timelessness have got the problem of keeping God superior to time while he has to wait for things like everybody else.
SO I wouldn't say it's just a guess.
Amazing how we can read the same passage again and again and see a completely different view of Jesus, his mother, and the mysteries of their lives. Some context is appropriate. The Corinthians to whom Paul was writing his letter were largely Greek and had been raised to believe in the possibility of a spiritual resurrection but were having a difficult time believing a bodily resurrection. Paul, I believe, was explaining that the resurrected body, both of Christ and of ourselves, would be transformed. Perhaps my view of the original Adam and Eve is influenced by my reading both Paradise Lost by Milton and C.S. Lewis’s science fiction trilogy, especially, Peralandria. And the whole transformed body thing of course, would be totally familiar to anyone who has watched the Star Trek TV series. I’m pretty visual so that is part of how I roll with my theology. I know that like Paul says, I’m still an infant and am eating baby food but I still see nothing you have sent me which comes even close to convincing me that I need to flee the Catholic Church to save my soul. I love the richness of the history and tradition and beauty of the liturgy. Most of all I love the Eucharist. I go into a Protestant Church and with all due respect, I sense no presence, its just another meeting hall. That is probably my failing. But I go into a Catholic sanctuary, I look for the red candle, I see the crucifix and I want to fall to my knees and worship. I will read the Bible and go to Bible study and seminars and read commentary the rest of my life. I cannot get enough of it. Thank you for the dialogue and God bless you on your journey.
One other thing. Where does it say in the Bible that the resurrected Christ doesn’t bleed? He eats. And before he died he disappeared twice, once in Nazareth and once at the Temple. So “walking through walls” is not only not specified in the Bible but he disappears before and after the resurrection. As far as him lusting etc. I’m guessing he also pooped and peed. But all three of those things are guesses and not mentioned in the Bible but he did eat, before and after the Resurrection. He was tempted to sin but remained sinless. Was he born with original sin in your world view? Just curious. Thanks.
I didn't say he lusted but clearly he was tempted to lust...
Thomas stuck his finger into an open wound...No mention of bandages or blood...
I don't believe they were raised believing in any kind of resurrection...
I have no hope that you will ever leave the Catholic religion...I post so that others may see the errors of Rome and not follow in your footsteps...
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