Posted on 09/02/2014 5:55:17 PM PDT by Gamecock
There was a time earlier on in my Christian life where I was quite the zealous little theology cop. I would blast Joel Osteen and the likes of him with their biblically deficient statements about God on my blog, twitter, Facebook — any outlet I could find. I thought it was my job to stand firm and "defend God's truth," calling out every bit of erroneous teaching I came across. I'm not that person anymore.
Don't get me wrong, I definitely think that there is a place for exposing false teaching (and to be clear, I think that most of what I've heard of Joel Osteen's teaching is false). But I think it needs to be done out of a love for Christ and a desire for people to know Him in truth, not out of a egocentric desire to just be "right."
So, before I go into Victoria Osteen's comments, I want to say that my intention is not to put her on blast or to publicly declare her a blasphemous bimbo. There's enough of that on the Internet already. My intention is to discuss the cheap view of God that fuels the kind of comments she made in that video.
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize that when we obey God, we're not doing it for God — I mean, that's one way to look at it — we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy. That the thing that gives Him the greatest joy.
So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?"
Here's the link to short video clip.
There is an element of truth to her statements about God desiring us to be happy and Him taking pleasure in our happiness. The Lord does not want His people be a mopey, despairing, steel-faced, jaw-clenched, stick-up-butt bunch of folks. Throughout the entirety of the Bible you see The Lord repeatedly commanding people to take delight in The Lord. David said that at the right hand of God are pleasures forevermore (Psalm 16:11)! Jesus said that He came and spoke truth to us that His joy may be in us and that our joy may be made full (John 15:11). When Paul wrote letters to the early Church, he did so for their progress and joy in the faith (Philippians 1:25). The concept of joy and the command to pursue it plagues the bible. You can't read it without realizing that the one true God is a happy God that desires his people to be happy as well.
So it's true — overwhelmingly true — that God wants us to be happy. But, the problem is that people like Victoria take this truth and slant it, ever so subtly, away from the God-centered-happiness that the Bible prescribes and toward a me-centered-happiness that the Bible condemns. God's greatest pleasure is not in our happiness (although He does desire that), but in His own glory. He wants His glory to be the fuel that our joy-appetites feed on. He wants His presence to be the longing of our souls. God wants us to be happy in Him.
"As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When shall I come and appear before God?" – Pslam 42:1-2
We were designed to be joy hungry creatures that fervently feast upon the glory of God. We were intended to be people that draw fresh life, day after day, from all the ways that God graciously manifests Himself to us. We were created to be people that are full out, head over heels obsessed with God. We were to seek Him constantly, pray to Him without ceasing, meditate on Him endlessly and do everything we do to see and experience more of His glory. And we were to enjoy living our lives this way.
But let's all be honest with ourselves, we naturally hate the idea of living our lives this way. Because sin has deformed our hearts. Before the fall, man had a heart that was outwardly directed toward God, but when sin entered in, our hearts folded inwardly and gazed upon ourselves. From the moment Adam's teeth sunk into the fruit of self-autonomy, the heart of mankind has sought happiness in and through himself, other people and everything around him. Anywhere but in God.
And I'm not just talking about meth addicts or porn addicts or prostitutes or crooked businessmen. Lots of people seek happiness apart from God but throw His name all over it. Using God for His this-side-of-glory gifts (aka the American Dream) without any real love for Him or desire to know Him doesn't count as seeking happiness in God. He takes no pleasure in that. But this is what I fear is happening in an incredibly large number of American Churches. This is what I fear is happening in the Osteen Church, based on the many things I have heard both Joel and Victoria say over the years. I won't pronounce judgment on them before the time (1 Corinthians 4:5), but I will say with certainty that taking the immutable, unstoppable and infinitely holy God of the Bible and reducing Him down to a three-wish celestial butler who is only here to make us happy — without us really having to surrender to, worship, adore or enjoy Him — is absolute heresy. There is a massive difference between enjoying God for who He is and "enjoying God" for what temporary or material blessings He can give you.
But this heresy is the 'gospel' of today's western spirituality. We refuse to worship a God who is opposed in any way to how we wish to live our lives. "God" is just this generic divine being who is here to affirm and bless whatever we feel like He should. We get to decide what we feel like is right or worthy of our worship, and then we yank the Holy One down off His throne and demand Him to bow at our feet and bless us our god-forsaken pursuits of purpose and joy.
A great example of this is this emergence of the idea that someone can be a "gay Christian"; a person who claims to worship Jesus Christ but refuses to actually worship Him by surrendering all that they are — like their fallen sexual impulses — to His authority and Lordship. But this kind of mentality goes far and beyond the same-sex attracted population. You'll find it among the dishonest business owners hustling for financial success, the twenty-something guidos pining after that GTL life, the straight guys manipulating girl after girl while trying to build up their 'I got some of that' trophy case — you'll find all walks and kinds of people living for godless pursuits, but still want a lil-bit-a Jesus on Sundays.
The cheap 'gospel' of western spirituality says that the path to happiness is accepting and loving yourself as you are, and believing that God wants to affirm you in whatever way that you choose to live out your life. But the real truth, the biblical truth, is that true joy is found not in self-acceptance, but self-denial. Not the insane, pleasure less I'm-gonna-beat-myself-with-a-stick-every-time-I-have-a-bad-thought kind self-denial, but the denial of sinful, me-centered thrills and spills for the sake of experiencing a better, pure, God-centered joy.
The reality is that if we're seeking happiness outside of God Himself, we're short changing ourselves. We're being cheap happiness chasers — living our lives for fleeting, momentary pleasures that can't satisfy our God-given capacities for God-centered joy. The void in our souls where true, God-centered joy was made to dwell is far too deep and wide for anything or anyone in this world to fill it. We will never be satisfied living our lives for ourselves. You will not be able to find contentment. We will always thirst for more. We were made to live for so much more than ourselves.
The Bible points us to a life of obsession with the beauty and glory of God because it's only when we lose ourselves in Him that we will ever actually find ourselves and, in turn, grasp true joy. Coming to God through the reconciling work of Jesus and feasting, day after day, upon all that He is for us — that will satisfy our souls. That will quench our thirst.
The call of the true gospel is not to be all that we can be and throw a little Jesus on it — it's to be reconciled to God through the work of Jesus Christ and to enjoy Him forever! God is the most valuable being in the universe. He's not boring or stiff or tame. He's outrageously interesting and the greatness of all that He is can (and will) be chased after for eternity. The best that He can give us is Himself, and that's exactly what He does in the gospel. If we want true satisfaction and lasting joy, we will not find it in going to church to "worship God for us" or in "doing good for ourselves." We won't find it in deciding for ourselves who and what we are. We will only find it in and through the Person of Jesus Christ.
True joy is wrapped up in knowing and savoring the Person of God. It can be found nowhere else.
I don't write this as someone who's got it all figured out. I love Jesus and have tasted of His goodness, but I still struggle to go to Him when my soul is dry. I still tend to so easily bend toward seeking out comfort for my heart in the cheap pleasures and pursuits of the world. But my hope is that this incredibly patient and merciful Source of all true joy will keep breathing fresh waves of mercy over my heart, re-shaping and re-creating me to be increasingly inclined to find all that I need and desire in the greatness of who He is.
“Great, Chong.
And exactly where does he DENY JESUS?”
PapaNew, do you think there is another way to get to heaven? From what Brother Osteen says, he implies that there could be other ways. To me that is heresy!
I did, the effect of typing faster than I could think accurately :-)
Personally, I believe we should be glorifying God more instead of making others ENVY us because of our worldly possessions.
“There are bigger fish to fry than the Osteen woman.”
Not so, if the ‘Osteen woman’ is teaching blasphemous stuff. The ‘feel good’ gospel of many of these megachurches is designed to bring in members to support their (the pastor’s etc) life style. Such as that of the Osteen’s, who live in a 10.5 million dollar mansion. It has nothing to do with a real relationship with our God.
God came down and walked with Adam in the Garden in the cool of he day.
It says of Enoch and of Noah that they walked with God. God seeks companionship from men, us, his creation. He sought it with Adam. He got it with Enoch and with Noah.
He wants it with each of us. Companionship...
Their people seem pretty joyful, and joy is essential to their teachings.
Great, Chong.
And exactly where does he DENY JESUS?”
PapaNew, do you think there is another way to get to heaven? From what Brother Osteen says, he implies that there could be other ways. To me that is heresy!
John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
These of the words of Jesus, not man, now for Osteen to say there could be another means to get to the father is either heresy or he is not wanting to offend any one. You may say he is not denying Christ but again he is not truthful with who Christ is.
There is a fine line between discernment and judgement. This link is interesting
https://bible.org/question/what-difference-between-discernment-and-being-judgmental
Where does he do that?
That’s no argument. If you can’t distill it into proof for your assertions then your argument fails.
Amazing. And how do you come to that conclusion?
Right. That's what Jesus, the prophets, and the N.T. saints did. That was the Pharisee's excuse for crucifying Jesus and persecuting His servants.
“NOWHERE in scripture can it be found that God wants us to be “happy”!”
Proverbs 16:20 -
“He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the Lord, happy is he.”
KING: What if you’re Jewish or Muslim, you don’t accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They’re wrong, aren’t they?
“OSTEEN: Well, I don’t know if I believe they’re wrong. I believe here’s what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with (sic) judge a person’s heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don’t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don’t know. I’ve seen their sincerity. So I don’t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus”
If you read the above he sure does not give a strong statement about the Lordship of Jesus. He stated he had seen the sincerity of the love of God in the heart of Indian’s, so he doesn’t know. There are Indians who do have Jesus in their heart and their are many who don’t. I can not see a persons heart like the Father can but to make a blanket statement saying that they love their particular god may get them to heaven is just flat wrong!
“If you really study God’s will for his people, you’ll see that man’s happiness is very important to Him.”
Sadly, those who are blinded by religious legalism may never realize that.
I was being facetious about Lewis. I have not heard the Osteens preach blasphemy, I guess all you folks have, or you hate them for the money they make or whatever. Nit pickers all of you.
“Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely,...but the other of love....whether in PRETENCE, or in TRUTH, Christ is preached; and I therefore do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice”. Phil. 1:15-18
“Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they SHALL be filled.” Matt. 5:6
Whether the path leads through a ‘showtime’ megachurch, and/or a stoic mainsteam denomination, God’s promise is sure: they that ‘hunger’ SHALL be sent, or led to, a minister of the true gospel.
Envy is a self-interest. Prosperity gospel is about self-interest.
A prosperity message is good for maybe a sermon or two per year — not all the time. How often does Joel preach on hell? We know Jesus did. How often does he peach on sin? We know Jesus did. I really don’t know because I don’t follow him.
Adrian Rodgers wasn’t a fan of what I refer to as the “prosperity gospel.” I heard one of his sermons just the other day where he discussed it. I’ve listened to a lot of great ministers but they don’t seem to focus on it either. Billy Graham certainly doesn’t seem to focus on what we get here on this earth.
I’ve got missionary friends in Africa. You think God wants them to be rich. Personally, I don’t believe it matters to them. And I don’t believe abundant life means worldly things.
Sorry but we’re just going to have to disagree.
**The constant smile is downright creepy. Smiling is way overrated..**
Smiling is way overrated??? Then you should not finally meet your nephew’s twin 9 month old daughters, as my wife and I did this past saturday. Joel’s big smile ain’t any bigger than the ones I saw at that family get together.
Where does he make this blanket statement?
Hey, a non-Pharisee in the crowd. Welcome ScottfromNJ.
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