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To: The Grammarian; Talisker
So it is here. I am not addressing 'org charts' while metmom speaks of spiritual states; I reject the presented dichotomy as a false dichotomy born out of a hyper-individualistic soteriology that supposes that we can be Christ-followers in isolation from one another.

Only Catholics are so good at making assumptions about what other people mean with no basis whatsoever.

And you know what? People can be Christ followers in isolation. Indeed, many people are forced into it due to circumstances beyond their control.

A person does NOT need a church, a denomination, an organization, to follow Christ.

A follower of Christ just needs the leading of the Holy Spirit who is the indwelling presence in the believer.

A Christian is one who's one inwardly, not one outwardly based on being a card carrying member of XYZ church.

45 posted on 07/28/2014 7:44:42 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

So are you saying that you don’t obey the Ten Commandments? Especially about keeping the Lord’s Day holy by attending church?


49 posted on 07/28/2014 8:00:15 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: metmom
Only Catholics are so good at making assumptions about what other people mean with no basis whatsoever.

You realize that I'm not Catholic, right? (That's a pretty uncharitable remark, regardless.)

And you know what? People can be Christ followers in isolation. Indeed, many people are forced into it due to circumstances beyond their control.

Exceptions (that one can be a Christ-follower in isolation because of external forces) do not prove the rule ("'Holy solitaries' is a phrase no more consistent with the gospel than holy adulterers. The gospel of Christ knows no religion, but social; no holiness but social holiness," as John Wesley puts it).

A person does NOT need a church, a denomination, an organization, to follow Christ.

The Early Church Fathers disagree with you (see again Cyprian of Carthage, among others). For that matter, the Bible disagrees with you (Hebrews 10:25). Organizations naturally arise out of community, and the Church (=ekklesia, assembly of the called) is naturally a community of believers. That organization is there to regulate the shared life of the Christian community to the end that God is glorified.

A follower of Christ just needs the leading of the Holy Spirit who is the indwelling presence in the believer.

And how do you know the Holy Spirit is leading you?

A Christian is one who's one inwardly, not one outwardly based on being a card carrying member of XYZ church.

This is another false dichotomy. "Card carrying membership" may not be required, but deliberately isolating yourself from other Christians can and should call into question whether you are really a Christian inwardly.

If you are unwilling to live with your brothers and sisters in community in the context of a local church and its attendant connections to other church congregations (be that a denomination or a 'non-denominational' church's connections to other churches in the community), then you should reevaluate to what it is that Christ is calling you.

61 posted on 07/28/2014 9:02:18 PM PDT by The Grammarian
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