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To: vladimir998
Forgiveness was won for everyone’s sins. That doesn’t mean you’re holding true to the gospel. Those are two separate things. Conflating one with the other is part of the problem Protestants have.

True, Forgiveness is secured by the Sacrifice of Christ, however, it is not applied to a sinner unless that sinner repents and believes the Gospel.

Are you born again as Christ commanded Nicodemus?

That is the true measure of whether or not you are a Christian.

Not adherence to the traditions and processes of a church like the Catholic Church or even any Protestant Church for that matter.

And no, you do not Know anything, you Believe what your church, the Catholic Church, tell you.

Don't Conflate Believing with Knowing.
35 posted on 07/14/2014 9:59:31 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

“True, Forgiveness is secured by the Sacrifice of Christ, however, it is not applied to a sinner unless that sinner repents and believes the Gospel.”

Agreed. And how does scripture tell us men are given that forgiveness under normal circumstances as envisioned by Christ and in His instructions to the Apostles? Acts 2:38; John 20:19-23.

“Are you born again as Christ commanded Nicodemus?”

Yes, John 3:5, 22.

“That is the true measure of whether or not you are a Christian.”

Agreed: “I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins...” (Nicene Creed).

“Not adherence to the traditions and processes of a church like the Catholic Church or even any Protestant Church for that matter.”

You create a false dichotomy. Sacred Traditions are not the man-made traditions of Protestants. St. Paul told us to hold fast to the traditions passed down to us: 2 Thessalonians 2:15. The NIV editors deliberately changed the text to say “teachings” rather than “traditions”. Oddly, they put the correct translation in the footnotes.

“And no, you do not Know anything, you Believe what your church, the Catholic Church, tell you.”

No, I KNOW. I know for a few reasons: history, the Apostolic Fathers, Scripture, common sense, and most importantly a personal encounter with Christ. None of that will convince a Protestant since Protestants ignore or distort history, do the same with the Apostolic Fathers, distort scripture, avoid common sense, and my encounter with Christ would simply be countered by what they say was their personal encounter with Christ.

“Don’t Conflate Believing with Knowing.”

I don’t. I just know what I know and believe what I believe. And here they are the same thing.

Although I would never boast of a conversion as dramatic and instantaneous as that of Alphonse Ratisbonne, I agree wholeheartedly with how he summed up the moment of his conversion:

“I came forth from a tomb, from an abyss of darkness ; and I was living, perfectly, energetically living. . . . and yet I shed tears. I saw before me the fearful miseries from which I had been rescued by the mercy of God ; I shuddered at the sight of my innumerable sins, and I was stupefied, melted, almost crushed by a sense of wonder and of gratitude. ... I thought of my brother with a joy beyond words ; but tears of compassion were mingled with my tears of love. Alas, that so many should go quietly down into this yawning abyss with their eyes closed by pride or
by indifference . . . should go down and be swallowed up of this horrible darkness... and then, my family, my betrothed, my poor sisters ! O torturing anxiety! My thoughts were of you, O ye beloved ones, — my first
prayers were for you ! . . . And are you never to raise your eyes towards the Saviour of the world, whose blood hath blotted out original sin ? O, how foul is the blot of that stain ! how completely it obliterates every trace by
which we might recognise the creature that was made in the image of God !”
http://www.amazon.com/The-Conversion-Monsieur-Marie-Alphonse-Ratisbonne/dp/1781486298


53 posted on 07/14/2014 10:25:52 AM PDT by vladimir998
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