Posted on 07/07/2014 10:16:41 AM PDT by Welchie25
Yes. The clergy were rife with corruption. Worldly. They were transferring Church properties to their families, building fiefdoms like any of the landed gentry. The Church struggled against this for centuries. That’s why there always had to be reformer saints, always. (e.g. the Hildebrandian reform.)
Uh huh.
Fortunately the current Pope has said the policy is a discipline——NOT a dogma etched into stone.
While not a great a fan of Pope Francis, he is absolutely right on that point and I do think we will some more changes on Church policy regarding clerical marriage in our lifetime.
Some think I’m a liberal because of my opposition to compulsory clerical celibacy. I laugh at that. My politics is slightly to the right of the late Sen. Jesse Helms. I am certainly far more conservative than your average everyday Catholic voter.
I view my position as the traditional Church position. Therefore a conservative position.
Yes. Hence the reason for the policy on compulsory clerical celibacy.
It does not come from the Bible.
It is a policy. It was never God’s plan.
God’s plan was for Adam and Eve and to be fruitful and multiply.
I thought it was common knowledge --- amongst Catholics, anyway.
Don’t want to get too much in the weeds over terms such as discipline and dogma and doctrine.
Suffice it to say, I think many Catholics including myself always thought that the compulsory clerical celibacy policy was something that was always in place and was basically etched in stone.
After doing quite a bit of research, I learned quite to the contrary.
I too used to think it was etched in stone and was always like that until researching it. Chalk it up to poor catechesis I guess.
With that said though, it’s not going away. In theory it could, but the likelihood is exceedingly remote.
False dichotomy. The Church's authority to govern herself --- that is, the "teach-govern-sanctify" mandate --- comes from the Bible. Therefore the properly constituted authorities have the power to make the Church's own canon law.
The current Code of Canon Law took effect in 1983. The former canon law code (1917) was about 1/3 longer --- so a a lot of the old canons were combined or abolished, These canons are rules related to the governance of the Church. Which is to say, the Church has the authority from God to govern herself.
Some of these laws are subject to change, and some are not. For example, the discipline of women wearing a veil at Mass was not kept in the 1983 code, so it's not required. On the other hand, the doctrine that only a validly ordained priest can consecrate the Eucharist, is unchangeable because it has to do with the definition of the Sacrament.
Christ told His first, select Church leaders, “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” (Mt 16:19, 18:18).
"Binding and loosing” is a Jewish phrase that means forbidding and permitting. It described the authority of the scribes and Pharisees to establish rules of conduct for the faith community, and the good Jew was called by Christ to obey them (Matt. 23:3).
In giving Peter the "Power of the Keys," Jesus is giving him the authority as viceroy to govern his Royal Household, the Church, as foretold in Isaiah 22:20-23 (LINK) "On that day I will call my servant Eliakim son of Hilkiah, and will clothe him with your robe and bind your sash on him. I will commit your authority to his hand, and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and no one shall shut; he shall shut, and no one shall open. I will fasten him like a peg in a secure place, and he will become a throne of honor to his ancestral house."
That's what the "keys" are all about.
Since Jesus gave this authority to the leaders of his Church, they have authority to do such things as establish feast days, regulate the clergy, and lay down laws for the good of the community.
"It is a policy. It was never God’s plan."
There is indeed a distinction to be made between God's laws (unchanging) and Canon law (some of it changeable) --- but this is understood in the context of Christ GIVING the Church the power to govern His household on earth.
God’s plan was for Adam and Eve and to be fruitful and multiply.
Yes, but He does not say every individual without exception has to marry and have children. Quite the contrary.
Matthew 19:12
"For there are different reasons why men cannot marry: some, because they were born that way; others, because men made them that way; and others do not marry for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven.Let him who can accept this teaching do so."
So this calling was recommended by Christ --- not for everyone, but those who are called, who can accept these teaching, should do so.
St. Paul likewise did not command this vocation for all, yet he highly recommended it. Do check out 1 Corinthians 7, which is certainly worth reading in context.
"So then, he who marries his virgin does right, but he who does not marry her, does better."
Why would the Church declare the Blessed Mother to have been immaculately conceived if it wasn’t in your bible?
You would have to ask Pope Pius IX who made the immaculate conception of Mary into Church dogma in the 1800s.
There is certainly NOTHING in the Bible mentioning this.
Wouldn’t be too sure about. There are already a large number of married Catholic priests in the world. Pope Francis has recently stated that the policy is not a dogma and is subject to change. We have a large number of married priests in our archdiocese, mostly converts from the Episcopalian Church. Pope John XXIII seemed to be very open to changing the policy. Popes Paul VI and John Paul II were very much opposed, although JPII did quietly permit married Episcopalian priests who converted over to remain married. It took the Church many centuries to implement its policy of compulsory clerical celibacy, and it will take a while to unwind it as it is no longer necessary. My guess is by osmosis, perhaps along with gradual reunification with the Orthodox Churches in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible requiring celibacy as a prerequisite for service in the priesthood. Quite the contrary:
“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach.”
1 Timothy 3:2
CLEARLY clerical marriage is permitted in the Bible. Of course the Church has every right to make up its own rules and regulations. But NO Church has the right to rewrite the Bible or to rewrite history.
However if it's really to me, I must remark that I must have expressed myself really incompetently, because it seems there was some impediment to communication.
Let's see if this helps:
There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible requiring celibacy as a prerequisite for service in the priesthood. Quite the contrary... “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach.”... 1 Timothy 3:2... CLEARLY clerical marriage is permitted in the Bible.
We're agreed on this. Nothing new here. We've been in agreement on this for a long, long time.
" Of course the Church has every right to make up its own rules and regulations."
Verum, verum. A right and duty given by Christ to His Church.
" But NO Church has the right to rewrite the Bible or to rewrite history."
Nobody rewrote the Bible; mine says the same as yours (assuming you have all 73 books); and nobody's rewritten history.
Hoping this helps.
OK we agree on these points.
I’m glad we found points of agreement.
Good!
1 in 50?
ie: 2 in 100?
The average in the US of pedophiles is 2 to 5%. At or lower than the average.
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