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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; daniel1212; Elsie
Mormons are polytheists who also believe that they themselves will become gods after death, provided they are holy enough, which is clearly condemned throughout the entirety of the scripture, such as when God declares "Is there a God beside me? Nay, there is no God; I know not any" (Isa 44:8). There is no "gray" area between the historical belief in one God by Jews and Christians for more than two thousand years and the Mormon belief in many gods. Furthermore, to hold to a false Gospel is damning. The Apostle teaches that whoever preaches a different Gospel than what he has delivered to us, "let him be accursed" (Gal 1:8). Similarly, the Apostles also condemn those who wish 'God speed' to those who teach false gospels, so that even those who apologize for the enemies of Christ, though they themselves may claim to not be of them, also share in the guilt (2 John 1:10-11).

Thank you but I'll defer direct response to your first paragraph simply in order to maintain focus of the topic at hand which is the Trinity. In another thread when I have more time I'd be happy to broaden the discussion.

The Trinity is also not obscure, but a clear and present reality in the scripture.

Please cite the verse that you believe makes it so clear.

Nor do Christians tolerate those who refuse to affirm the Trinity and who give succor to those who deny it, although they themselves pretend to be "moderate" Christians. There is no option for being neither hot nor cold when it comes to the essentials of the Christian faith, but instead an active confession is required (Rom 10:9, Rev 3:15-16). If you hold yourself in a position where you neither affirm or deny such an important question as whether the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are a trinity, then you are damned,

Please show me the scripture which says that. In your first paragraph you strongly condemned anyone spreading a false gospel so, show me the scripture that places salvation subject to belief in the Trinity. If your bible contains such scripture in it's gospel message, please include the type bible and translation.

86 posted on 07/04/2014 8:08:29 AM PDT by fso301
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To: fso301
Please cite the verse that you believe makes it so clear.

Please cite the verse that you believe makes it clear that one verse is what makes a doctrine to be a clear and present reality in the scripture.

95 posted on 07/04/2014 12:29:15 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fso301; daniel1212; Elsie; All
Thank you but I'll defer direct response to your first paragraph simply in order to maintain focus of the topic at hand which is the Trinity.

Actually, the "focus of the topic at hand" was indeed your defense of Mormonism as a Christian religion. You are just changing the goal posts. Your statements on the Trinity was only part of your reasoning to support your primary claim. However, I predicted that you would avoid the topic of Mormonism since, if you defended it, you would be forced to either deny or don't mention what they teach and focus on bland moralism, explain how polytheism is scriptural or at least not a big deal for us monotheists, or at least launch an argument in favor of "doctrines not being a big deal," and thus coming out as a relativist. All these approaches are unattractive, so the only other alternative is to go on the offensive. But this also is in vain.

In another thread when I have more time I'd be happy to broaden the discussion.

I doubt that, but to prove me wrong, how about you start the thread and ping me to it?

Please cite the verse that you believe makes it so clear.

OK, but it will be multiple verses, plus the one I already showed.

Since we know the scripture "cannot be broken," as Christ puts it, meaning that it cannot be contradicted, we know that each verse must be believed.

1) Christianity is monotheistic, using the verse I already showed.

2) Christ is God:

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

This chapter also identifies the Word as Christ. Note that Christ is both with God and is God. He is thus distinct with God, being with Him, yet, at the same time, He is the same God.

3) The Holy Spirit is God: Act 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

4) The Father is God, and is distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit.

"And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Mar 1:10-11

Here the Father speaks in heaven, while the Holy Spirit hovers above the Son.

2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Here they are addressed separately.

Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Here we are baptized in their name, showing their equality with one another in the divine institution of baptism.

So let's add it together 1 + 2 + 3 + 4: Since there is only one God, yet the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons, then these three must be of one substance in the Godhead, or, in other words, the Trinity. Not conflating the persons as different "modes", like an actor going from role to role, nor dividing them, as the Mormons do, into three seperate gods.

Please show me the scripture which says that. In your first paragraph you strongly condemned anyone spreading a false gospel so, show me the scripture that places salvation subject to belief in the Trinity.

The scripture condemns polytheism:

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

The scripture also commands belief in Jesus Christ, not just in His person, as if He is an empty person with no doctrine, but in His testimony as well, which includes His sayings on the Godhead and, really, all the teachings of the Apostles as well. If you disbelieve Christ's own plain word, then you have no truth in you.

111 posted on 07/04/2014 4:52:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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