Posted on 06/26/2014 11:27:30 AM PDT by Colofornian
Mass confusion is still extant pertaining to three key Christian words -- each related to "ministry" and those who serve God:
"priesthood"
"saints"
"ordination"
Each of these words have, unfortunately, been largely skewed by the historical Church: The first two by Roman Catholicism; the latter by Protestantism.
'Holy Priesthood...Royal Priesthood'
No New Testament-based Church can neglect 1 Peter 2:4-9 and Revelation 1:5-6 plus Revelation 5:10 in its definition of "priesthood."
In 1 Peter 2, the "holy priesthood" (verse 5) and the "royal priesthood" (verse 9) are described as a privilege presented to those who...
...come to Christ (verse 4);
...are chosen by God (verse 4);
...are precious to God (verse 4);
...make up God's "spiritual household" (verse 5);
...are God's "people" (verse 9);
...are a "holy nation" (verse 9);
...are God's "special possession" (verse 9);
..."declare the praises of" God (verse 9)
Here are the specific verses cited in context:
4 As YOU come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 YOU also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”[d] They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But YOU are a chosen PEOPLE, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a HOLY NATION, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a PEOPLE, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
The obvious questions then arise when reading these passages: Do only males...
...come to Christ?
...become objects of His chosen ones?
...become valued as "precious" by God?
...become His "special possession"?
...declare God's praises?
And exactly what kind of a "spiritual household" would such a "household" be if it excluded females?
Is Peter's reference to God's people in verse 9 gender-restricted? What kind of a "people" would that be?
What is a "holy nation" that is gender-homogenous?
Or what is a "kingdom" that constitutes males only? (see Revelation 1:5-6 and Revelation 5:10 for context)
Is 'Ministry' -- a word that simply means 'Service' -- best reflected within a hierarchical structure? Or, rather, as Christ Himself served, being a bond-servant of Him?
In the New American Standard Bible, which strives more toward a fairly literal translation...
...Peter referenced Himself as a "bond-servant" of Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:1).
So did James (James 1:1).
So did Jude (Jude 1).
So did Paul (Titus 1:1; 2 Cor. 4:5, etc.), who also included Timothy in that description (Phil. 1:1).
Paul also labeled Epaphras (Col. 1:7) and Tychicus (Col. 4:7) as such.
And the apostle John uses the phrase nine times in the book of Revelation (1:1; 2:20; 7:3; 11:18; 15:3; 19:2,5; 22:3,6).
Finally, Paul even describes Jesus Himself as a "bondservant" (Phil. 2:7)!
What is a "bond-servant?" Well, the New American Standard version also highlighted its more literal usage: A bond-servant of Jesus Christ is simply a bondslave of Jesus Christ (see Col. 4:12 re Epaphras reference; Titus 2:9; 1 Peter 2:16)
At the time the apostle Paul wrote his letter to those in Christ at Rome, about one-third of the Roman world was slaves...bond-servants.
And it's no coincidence that Peter references "bondservant" just seven verses (1 Pet. 2:16) after his "royal priesthood" reference (v. 9): Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God."
You see, the common notion of "priesthood" has been historically skewed by layers of ecclesiastical bureaucracy. The "priesthood" isn't "one-upsmanship" in terms of service. The very words "ministry" and "service" is what is provided by the Bondslaves operating from a spiritual posture on their knees; not ecclesiastical "magistrates" administratively "lording" it over others.
This is why both the feminist rebellion verses a Biblical understanding of spiritual submission within the Church at-large
-- along with the historical notions to place both "priesthood" and "ministry" as "higher levels"
... via the decidely unbiblical notion of "ordination" --
...have both run off-base courses.
NOTE: "Clergy"-"Laity" distinctions in the ways they've come to be interpreted within Protestantism and other church traditions are extrabiblical traditions; "ordination" is merely a biblical word tied to the decrees of God but has no verse-by-verse Biblical underpinnings re: "THE ministry."
Being a bond-servant -- a bondslave -- is submission; is servanthood.
Sainthood
Likewise, the vocabulary of "Sainthood" also suffered within history and unto modern times in much the same way as "priesthood" and "the ministry"...reducing these levels to the "very few" and "spiritually elite." (NOTE: Satan has always desired to reduce his battle to a mere few)
"Saints" simply literally means "holy ones" -- those set apart to serve our Lord. In other words, ALL of us who are in Christ. We are ALL set apart for holy service, bearing the Holy Spirit within each of us.
When the apostle Paul referenced the church in greetings and other references, he highlighted ALL of them as "saints":
"but now, I am going to Jerusalem serving the saints." (Romans 15:25)
"For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem." (Romans 15:26)
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1)
"To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father." (Col. 1:2)
"But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;" (Eph. 5:3)
'Ordained' or 'Ordination' for Ministry
In the New Testament, you'll find the Greek word for "ordained" twice...and both are applied to the Law of God...not to special leadership capacities. "Ordination" as a word isn't otherwise in the New Testament.
Landing Point: The Reformation and 'Priesthood of All Believers'
Allow me to quote from Wikipedia: Universal Priesthood (doctrine):
"While Martin Luther did not use the exact phrase 'priesthood of all believers", he adduces a general priesthood in Christendom in his 1520 To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation in order to dismiss the medieval view that Christians in the present life were to be divided into two classes: 'spiritual' and 'secular'. He put forward the doctrine that all baptized Christians are 'priests' and 'spiritual' in the sight of God:
"That the pope or bishop anoints, makes tonsures, ordains, consecrates, or dresses differently from the laity, may make a hypocrite or an idolatrous oil-painted icon, but it in no way makes a Christian or spiritual human being. In fact, we are all consecrated priests through Baptism, as St. Peter in 1 Peter 2[:9] says, "You are a royal priesthood and a priestly kingdom," and Revelation [5:10], "Through your blood you have made us into priests and kings.'"
Two months later Luther would write in his On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church (1520):
How then if they are forced to admit that we are all equally priests, as many of us as are baptized, and by this way we truly are; while to them is committed only the Ministry (ministerium Predigtamt) and consented to by us (nostro consensu)? If they recognize this they would know that they have no right to exercise power over us (ius imperii, in what has not been committed to them) except insofar as we may have granted it to them, for thus it says in 1 Peter 2, "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a priestly kingdom.' In this way we are all priests, as many of us as are Christians. There are indeed priests whom we call ministers. They are chosen from among us, and who do everything in our name. That is a priesthood which is nothing else than the Ministry. Thus 1 Corinthians 4:1: 'No one should regard us as anything else than ministers of Christ and dispensers of the mysteries of God.'"
Other Notable Biblical Considerations
1 The apostle Paul listed spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12-14, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. They are not gender-specific. Thus, ministry is carried on by the Holy Spirit operating thru both men and women operating as the Laos (Greek for laity) -- the "people" of God.
2 In the New Testament, we find female prophetesses in Luke 2:36 (Anna) & Acts 21:8-9 (evangelist Philip's four daughters). In some current religious cultures -- like the Mormon Church -- Philip and his four daughters might frankly be ex-communicated in a such a sub-culture! Faith investigators may want to be careful in "faulting" the Holy Spirit for giving this gift to females in those circumstances, or other spiritual gifts that the apostle Paul highlighted in numerous New Testament passages.
3 Israel was quite comfortable with Deborah serving as a Judge-leader; and an entire Old Testament book (and ensuing Purim recognition amongst Jewish believers) is devoted to Esther serving as an intercessor where no man had the inroad (or seeming courage) to proceed?
You are quick, Sal, didn’t get long for you to get the Mods to scrub my post to you.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I notice you ‘Religion Moderators’ tolerate lots of what non Catholics would consider abuse, but are quick to not tolerate it the other way.
If those are the requirements, the first person to meet them is going to be very lonely.
“Catholics are Christians. In fact, they were the first Christians.”
The Bible does not support that ‘Catholics...were the first Christians.’ Not even the ‘catholic’ translations, like my favorite ‘Jerusalem Bible’.
The Bible came along after Jesus, The Apostles and the Church.
And here the pattern repeats, a retreat which I can only assume follows there be little to no understanding of what it was I tried to bring to your attention (for there is rarely if ever much in the way of acknowledgement of such as that, from you) then after some back-and-forth that which I tried to mention, apparently scooted away and distanced from -- followed then public announcement of sorts that you will pray?
That may be all well enough and fine, and I do hope you find there what may assist you, yet when such mentions of "praying" arise in context like this, which again it has -- know that for previous iteration of much as this same, I did consider to ask if you would be going out and standing on street corners to be seen as one so holy, praying for ~what~ exactly, ~for~ myself again? -- this time around anyway?
I have seen some of your own testimony, and have witnessed that be projected upon others as paths they were themselves on -- and should follow you now -- but in this consider mine -- I have never been a [Roman] Catholic, yet even then have been provided, by God's grace, much which He has promised in the Scripture He would give for those who seek for, and open themselves to Him, and even those drawn by His own hand to Him -- which God the Father has shown me directly He will eventually do by His own power in a yet mightier an even Ultimate, final way.
This is not a matter of faith but as much or more knowing as fact (though I do confess that I often in my day-to-day doings, rather forget).
Have you ever heard the voice of God?
I do not mean the leading or prompting of the Spirit -- which I do think He much prefers we move with Him by that influence -- but the Voice heard clearly even word-for-word?
And not speaking of anointing by touch of another conveying that warmth of spirit which at times He can be quietly known by, or even that depth of peace as He can minister to us in communion and the partaking of that same, but more as having been touched directly by the Creator, by His very own will & touch of His Almighty hand?
I can tell you there is nothing else quite like Him in that way -- He is terrible in His utter Holiness.
So just what prayer should be prayed for one such as I? Will the Spirit lead you, or will you pray only from your own mind?
Try asking -- still yourself -- be quiet and listen do not project -- He needs not our instructions. We need His.
Come back and tell me what He says if any -- but careful careful careful see to it one does not put words into His mouth (if you can at all help yourself from doing so, beg the Spirit to prevent there mistake) so that one and all will be prevented from saying He said such-and-such, if He said no such things.
Is that too much to ask?
If so, I ask another thing instead. If you are to pray as you say for me just go ahead and do that without telling me so, and your own hands will be all the cleaner, for the lack of mention.
AHHhhh...
The final answer of the stumped.
Oh, the Catholics get quite a few of their rabid posts pulled as well.
By the time we ALL get this far into a thread; most of the evidence has been shown already, and we are left with just snipeing at one another.
Mary is STILL dead and not helping Jesus one bit in Heaven.
Yes.
SLC’s own figures say that only about 15% or so of ALL Mormons have a TR.
If THEY can’t even make it into their own special place with God the Father; what’s that say about the REST of us poor shlubs?
“I go to prepare a place for thee...”
It is quite predictable.
Once again if it is worth reading 5 sentences or less.
You still have not explained how that cute little Colton Burpo is wrong. Was he lying? Was his father, an ordained minister in your own faith, lying? Or do other protectants have it wrong?
Please answer with out one of your patented smarmy answers, I am asking a serious question.
I'm not going to analyze someone for you; for YOU have not told ME how he is RIGHT!
Well; that makes one in a row!
Sorry; but the ground is way too damp to go chasing thru your rabbit holes this morning.
Mary is still dead.
Just so I am clear: Are you saying that one or both of them are lying?
As for the "I'll pray" component, this last time is didn't come across to me as being quite as insulting as it has, many times before. Progress?
But this sort of "I'll pray for you", arising from the contexts which it does, then followed by yet more assaultive discourse, is off-putting to say the least.
With "friends" like that who needs enemies?
You got this from Obama?
HMMMmmm...
What did I type?
Your parser ring broken?
Likewise; around Halloween....
With fiends like these; who needs enemas?
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