Posted on 06/26/2014 8:59:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
In his landmark work Jesus the Christ, James E. Talmage spends several pages outlining the high priests unrighteous adjuration of the Savior. The Sanhedrin wanted so badly to not only stem the growth of Jesus growing disciples, but to take back control of what he continued to point out as a broken religious system of Pharisees, Sadducees, hypocrisy, judgment and adherence to outdated laws that ignored the heart of his message of love, tolerance and spiritual growth.
Before I proceed, let me make it clear with those who are looking closely for opportunities to cry foul that I am not comparing Kate Kelly to Jesus Christ in the sense that she is a savior figure, or worthy of worship. She is as mortal and flawed as any of the rest of us.
This post does seek, however, to ask important questions about how Kate Kellys local leaders have handled her situation, as it relates to Mormonisms closest thing to church law the Church Handbook of Instructions.
Talmage painstakingly outlines a host of examples of how the Sanhedrin the governing council of Jewish law circumvented clearly established Jewish procedure in order to hastily try and convict Jesus of blasphemy. They held proceedings on the Sabbath. They did not call the proper witnesses. They did not provide the required evidence.
It would seem that, from the 30,000 foot view most of us have of the situation, the pending trial of Kate Kelly in Vienna, Va. contains much of the same circumventing of LDS procedure in order to come to a swift and, in my personal opinion, pre-determined outcome.
I do openly acknowledge that I have not been privy to all of Kate Kellys private conversations with her ecclesiastical leaders. Kate has, however been very open about them herself.
Some have suggested to me privately that Kate is not being entirely forthcoming about all of her interactions with her bishop and Stake President. I, however, have no reason not to take her at her word.
Outlined below are ways in which Kate Kellys leaders either knowingly or unknowingly circumvented established church procedure in bringing charges of apostasy against her.
We will start with President Wheatley.
Issue #1: Jurisdiction
Shortly before leaving the Washington, D.C. area to relocate to Utah, Kate Kelly met with her Stake President, Scott Wheatley and one of his counselors, Kenneth Lee. As a result of that meeting, Kate received a letter notifying her that she had been placed on informal probation.
Said informal probation was to include not holding a calling, giving talks, praying in public, sustaining church officers or representing that you are a member in good standing.
A couple of things blatantly at issue here.
First, the Handbook clearly states that the bishop is the first line of defense when it comes to church discipline [1]. Stake Presidents normally get involved when it comes to formal church discipline, and then only for Melchizedek Priesthood holders.
President Wheatleys first move was to circumvent the churchs code of jurisdiction as outlined by the Handbook by not deferring to her bishop.
Issue #2: Informal Probation Restrictions
President Wheatley outlines some rather odd restrictions to be placed on Kate as a result of an informal probation.
For informal probation [2] , the Handbook discusses things like not taking the sacrament, not attending the temple (including handing in your temple recommend) and not exercising the priesthood (obviously not in play here).
What is striking here is that the more severe restrictions President Wheatley outlines are nowhere to be found in the recommendations of restrictions on those who are going through informal probation. So where did he come up with them?
Those restrictions come from a section on the formal church discipline of Disfellowshipment. [3]
President Wheatley placed disfellowshipment restrictions on Kate Kelly under the guise of informal probation.
All without a formal church court.
President Wheatley sentenced Kate to what is effectively a church prison without a trial.
Issue #3: Impropriety of Informal Probation
The Handbook clearly states that informal probation is NOT to be used when considering some of the more serious acts that formal discipline is meant to address. [4]
On that list are things like murder and incest. Not applicable.
But also on the list is Apostasy. The charge with which Kate is accused in the letter from her bishop.
President Wheatley never should have placed Kate Kelly on informal probation. Her case should have been taken immediately to formal discipline.
Issue #4: Written and (threatened) public notification of informal probation
We all know the church is big on keeping records. Which is why the Handbook clearly states that informal probation does not require ANY sort of paperwork to be done. In fact, it discourages it. [5]
The fact that President Wheatley took the time to write and email a letter to Kate is a not in line with the Handbooks recommendation for handling informal discipline.
Issue #5: Threatening public announcement of informal probation status
According to Kate Kelly, the reason she came forward last week with the letters was because she was told by President Wheatley that if she did not comply with the demands he placed on her in regards to her (illegal) informal probation, he would go public with it. This, in response and seemingly retaliation to her public actions in conjunction with Ordain Women.
Anyone who knows anything about church discipline formal or informal, knows this is a big No-No. The Handbook backs this up, with language instructing bishops (again, its so unusual for SPs to administer informal probation that the Handbook speaks in terms of the bishops actions) to not announce the decision to anyone, and keep only private records that he is to destroy later.
So, now we have Kate Kellys Stake President circumventing church policy in five specific ways:
1. Overriding the bishops jurisdiction 2. Placing inappropriate restrictions on her for informal probation 3. Improperly placing informal probation on her when her charges necessitated formal church discipline. 4. Keeping a formal record of her informal probation 5. Threatening to make public her informal probation
Those are troubling enough to me. But they dont end there.
Kate received the email notifying her of her informal probation from President Wheatley on May 22.
On June 8, after she had already left for Utah, she received a letter from her bishop, Mark Harrison, notifying her of a formal disciplinary council being called to address the charge of Apostasy against her.
Lets take a look at the issues surrounding that letter.
Issue #1: Mode of notification
When I served as a bishops counselor, I knew not only from reading the Handbook, but also from participating in a few church courts myself that all notifications of church disciplinary action being taken on an individual must be delivered to the accused in person, by two Melchizedek priesthood holders.
But wait, you say. Kate had already moved to Utah by then.
Yes. Which is why the church puts an exception into the notification rule. But its not email. [6]
If a member being summoned before a disciplinary council cannot be reached in person, the church officer issuing the letter may deliver the notification via certified mail, with return receipt requested where available.
May implies permission given. Thats standard use throughout the Handbook.
Thus, bishops are given special permission to step outside the normal rule (hand delivery by two MP holders) by sending via certified mail.
Whats lost here is the intent of this rule. Why two MP holders? Why certified mail with return receipt?
It seems to me that the Handbook is encouraging the in the mouths of two or three witnesses here. Multiple priesthood holders can attest to a successful delivery of the letter.
A return receipt implies that the post office (while obviously void of priesthood authority) is acting alongside the bishop as a witness that the letter was delivered properly.
Email falls outside these bounds. There is no proof of delivery. No guarantee that the receiver opened the email and received your message.
Can you send a regular court summons via email? No, and for good reason.
Bishop Harrison goofed when he sent his notification via email.
He seems here to be following the pattern of President Wheatley, which would suggest to me that their efforts were in some way coordinated.
Issue #2: No counsel provided
The Handbook makes it clear that, before resorting to church discipline, the presiding officer should attempt to meet with the individual to counsel over the issues at hand. This, understandably, is a course of action meant to stave off formal church discipline and allow the accused to repent on their own accord. [7]
According to multiple interviews with Kate, her bishop never once expressed an ounce of concern with her involvement with Ordain Women. Not when the website went up, not at the first public demonstration, not when church PR got involved and not at the second demonstration.
Heres what Kate told the Salt Lake Tribune:
I said [to my bishop] if you have any questions, please come to me first, lets have a conversation about it. And he literally never approached me. Every Sunday, week after week, I saw him, I interacted with him, I had a calling. He never called me. He never stopped by my house. He never pulled me aside on any Sunday. He personally never called me in to have a conversation about this.
The Handbook indicates that personal interviews are an opportunity for the accused to confess and forsake sin. Even if she stood at fault for any of her actions (I dont believe she is at fault), Kate Kelly was never given a chance to personally confess to her bishop through a personal interview. This, after multiple personal interactions between Kate and Bishop Harrison.
Issue #3: Not giving adequate time to consider implications of formal church discipline or to gather facts
The Handbook takes formal church discipline very seriously. So much so, that it counsels bishops and stake presidents to wait until the accused has had a reasonable amount of time to consider the ramifications of a formal disciplinary hearing before scheduling the hearing. [8]
Bishop Harrisons letter gives no time. In fact, he scheduled the hearing with absolutely no warning. Notification of discipline and scheduling of the council, all within the same few paragraphs.
The presiding officer is also encouraged to gather as much information as possible before deciding on a course of action. Presumably, this would include talking to the accused if they are amenable to discussing, no?
What Bishop Harrison should have done was to either visit with Kate prior to her departure, or call her in order to inform her that he was considering formal church discipline. See, this is the part where the accused gets an opportunity to speak openly with the accuser before charges are formally filed.
Bishop Harrison never even gave her that chance.
Issue #4: Official Wording
This one is nitpicky to be sure, but it highlights Bishop Harrisons sloppiness.
The Handbook clearly gives specific wording the letter of notification of formal discipline is to contain. Im quite sure this is for legal reasons. Words you might commonly hear on the news pertaining to people who have been accused but not convicted of a crime. [9]
Reading his letter er .email, Bishop Harrison clearly is writing off the cuff here.
Again, a nitpick, but it speaks to the overall bypassing of the Handbook by Bishop Harrison.
Issue #5: Kates Relocation
This one is pretty important.
The Handbook clearly states that if a member moves while church discipline is being considered, the presiding officers in both locations are to consult together on the best course of action. Should action be taken in the members old ward or new ward? Thats up to both bishops to decide. [10]
We know that Kate had not been informed by her bishop before she moved that he was considering formal discipline. In fact, she has stated repeatedly in the last week that her bishop saw her just days before she pulled out of town to leave for Utah, and never mentioned a word of it.
I saw him before I left, I gave him a hug and that was it, Kate has said.
Bishop Harrison makes no indication in his letter to Kate that he consulted with Kates new bishop in Utah and they both, together, decided to hold the council in Virginia. In fact, there is clear indication that Bishop Harrison had no intention of moving her records at all, something he should have informed Kate of before she moved.
The Handbook encourages this communication between presiding authorities for several reasons. The availability of witnesses is one. I am not keen on this information specifically, but it is my understanding that several prominent Ordain Women leaders reside in Utah. Leaders who could have acted as witnesses on either side. Obviously, Church leaders who told Ordain Women not to hold another demonstration during April Conference could act as witnesses against Kate reside in Utah.
It would seem to me that a church court would actually make more sense in Utah. And yet, in his wisdom, it would seem he finds it completely appropriate to not only hold the council in Virginia, but not to bother discussing the matter with Kates new bishop.
So, Bishop Harrison seems to have circumvented the Handbook in the following ways:
1. Improper method of notification 2. Not providing any type of pastoral counsel prior to issuing notice of formal discipline 3. Not giving adequate time for accused to consider implications, or time to gather information 4. Official wording not used 5. Improperly handling her relocation
Church leaders have a sacred obligation to treat church discipline with the seriousness and preciseness inherent with threatening to strip someone of their membership.
Whats most striking about this issue is what position this has put Kate in. She has stated multiple times over the last week that the most frustrating thing is how opaque the church disciplinary process is.
Most church members would never know about these procedures, because the church keeps the Handbook strictly prohibited to Stake Presidencies and bishoprics.
While it may be in the churchs best interest to keep this information under a tight lid, it also makes abuse of power not only a real possibility, but much easier to pull off.
Because when the members dont know the rules, its impossible to know if their leaders arent following them.
[1] Church Handbook of Instructions, 6.8
[2] CHI, 6.8.2
[3] CHI, 6.9.2
[4] CHI, 6.9.1 Formal probation is not an option when priesthood leaders administer Church discipline for a member who has been involved in any of the serious transgressions listed in 6.12.10
[5] CHI, 6.8.2 paragraph 4
[6] CHI, 6.10.2, paragraphs 6 and 7
[7] CHI, 6.8.1 and 6.4 paragraph 1
[8] CHI, 6.10.2 paragraph 1
[9] CHI, 6.10.2 paragraphs 3, 4 and 5
[10] CHI, 6.2.7
Dance a jig avoiding a cogent response...yeah, I get it, knew it before I posted...just checking to see if there was any legitimacy behind your posting and was confirmed there isn’t any, as usual.
Thanks...
Do you? I notice you won't answer it.
Where is the hypocrisy in my post #15?
Well, bye-bye then.
Must a game be comprised only of complex moves? "Checkers" is still a game. So is "tiddlywinks".
The English language is incredibly complex.
They ARE?
So; you must agree with THESE statements by YOUR Brothers; RIGHT??
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."
Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.
Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:
(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)
1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said, "The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."
We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood. According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented. |
Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:
"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).
When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:
"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."
When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)
Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.
I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.
At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parentson the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.
One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.
(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say Thus Saith the Lord, to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by mens reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidencythe highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidencythe living prophet and the First Presidencyfollow them and be blessedreject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captainhow close do our lives harmonize with the Lords anointedthe living ProphetPresident of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng
Aren’t they all...
Except mormonISM is not Christianity, so your alert is invalided.
Mormonism is an anti-Christian religious cult which denies the central doctrines of historical Christianity and Judaism. By definition, it is not Christian, and its members are considered damned and in need of hearing the Gospel. The point of comparing Mormonism to Scientology is valid, since if you claim that Mormonism is equally Christian with us, then you are a relativist who does not care about doctrines. It is unfair of you then to claim that the Scientologists are not Christian, even though the Scientologists themselves claim that their religious beliefs are compatible with Christianity, and want Christians to join.
So many outside of Mormonism don’t grasp that this isn’t even about women pastors. Mormons have a lay “priesthood”- everything is done by members, no training given and even 12 yr old boys hold their ‘priesthood’. Women are excluded from things that they are allowed as lay members in almost every other church - they can’t stand in the circle when their babies are blessed, they can’t lay hands on or anoint for healing or blessing, and in most Protestant churches women lay members can even baptize but not in Mormonism.
And the fact that 3 men broke their own rules to oust a woman is ironic.
Wrong, its not bashing Christians and every one of us who sees the errors of Mormonism and comes to the REAL Christ praises God for threads and info like this.
And it is biblical to weaken faith in a false God.
Mormons are not Christians. Their own doctrine makes them not Christian.
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