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To: Petrosius
How can the Bible alone be a sufficient rule of faith if we cannot know what is the Bible.

So you know nothing about textual issues then?

In fact, why do we accept Mark or Luke as Scripture since neither was an apostle nor a witness to our Lord?

They were companions of the apostles.

It is only on the authority of the Church church which accepted them as Scripture.

Agree ...

If it is not the church which can determine and authenticate the canon of Scripture who can?

Here is where your Romanism trips you up. The church doesnt determine canonicity ... God determined it. The NT was God-breathed, therefore it is authoritative. It is God who determined the canon via inspiration of the texts. The only thing left for the church to do was to recognize those texts that were authoritative ... and they did very early on (long before the councils in 300+ AD.)

By 60 AD Peter already recognized Pauls writings as scripture ... because they were written by Paul! Peter didn't need any council or church to tell him that ... he recognized the apostolic authority of Pauls writing ... and so did all the churches. That Peter recognized Pauls writings as scripture before the completion of the NT also shows that the recognition of the canon was gradual (since Revelation was not even penned until 95 AD).

The church doesn't determine the canon, God determined it by inspiring the writing.

106 posted on 06/11/2014 6:52:18 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: dartuser; Petrosius
The church doesnt determine canonicity ... God determined it.

False opposition. Begs the question -- which is: Whether and in what way are the acts (or some of them) of the Church rightly described as the acts of God?

"For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to ...."
Related questions would be about the word "Apostle", and what are we to make of this?
"... .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives any one whom I send receives me; and he who receives me receives him who sent me."

and

Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."

It seems to me that there is ample evidence in Scripture to support, if not conclusively, the contention that the leaders of the Church have the gift of authoritative teaching.

It's all very well to say God made the canonical books canonical. Other recent threads about those who want to reject most of Paul suggest that some who call themselves Christians do not recognize God's closing the canon, with some books in and some books out.

113 posted on 06/11/2014 7:08:30 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: dartuser
Here is where your Romanism trips you up. The church doesnt determine canonicity ... God determined it. The NT was God-breathed, therefore it is authoritative. It is God who determined the canon via inspiration of the texts. The only thing left for the church to do was to recognize those texts that were authoritative ... and they did very early on (long before the councils in 300+ AD.) By 60 AD Peter already recognized Pauls writings as scripture ... because they were written by Paul! Peter didn't need any council or church to tell him that ... he recognized the apostolic authority of Pauls writing ... and so did all the churches. That Peter recognized Pauls writings as scripture before the completion of the NT also shows that the recognition of the canon was gradual (since Revelation was not even penned until 95 AD). The church doesn't determine the canon, God determined it by inspiring the writing.

And God gave the authority to determine or recognize the Canon to the Apostles.

Yes, Peter accepted Paul's writings because Peter was the Apostle to whom the LORD Jesus Christ gave the keys to he kingdom of heaven. Peter also pointed out they were difficult to understand. Who has the authority to interpret what Paul wrote ? Peter certainly does.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

116 posted on 06/11/2014 8:04:35 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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