St. Louis priest in court on abuse allegations

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 6/2/2014 | AP

[Dr. Thorne]

ST. LOUIS (AP) - A Catholic priest from St. Louis is facing a court hearing on charges that he had sexual contact with a 14-year-old boy.

The Rev. Joseph Jiang faces two counts of statutory sodomy. Jiang worked at the Cathedral Basilica and is accused of sexually abusing a student at St. Louis Cathedral School. His lawyer has said Jiang denies the allegations.

[terycarl]

False doctrine breeds corruption.

that's what Catholics have been saying since about 1600 when Martin and the boys showed up...

[terycarl]

Just remove the celibacy part and almost all of these problems disappear.

nonsense...the child abuse incidents are FAR more prevelant in the protestant denominations, public schools, scouting etc...

[Iscool]

The idea that there's some nutty "doctrine" among priests that results in sexual abuse, has been debunked time and time again.

Maybe because the wrong questions were asked...

It is no secret that the Catholic religion is inundated with queer priests, bishops and cardinals...The prohibition against marriage certainly would make the priesthood attractive to homos...

Within the Catholic priesthood there is easy access to young boys...Girls, not so much...It is my thinking that married (to women) priests would be far more heterosexual than than the unmarried priests currently in the system...

Therefore, it is far less likely (tho not impossible) that a heterosexual priest would be far less likely to molest and recruit boys into sexual perversion than it is for the queer priests...

[Iscool]

Why is the abuse among teachers higher than any among any kind of minister/priest?

I doubt that statement is accurate when comparing apples with apples...Besides, most teachers are liberals who seem to have less moral guidance than conservatives...Comparing priests to teachers is ridiculous...

[Iscool]

I am amazed that people feel that being celibate causes heterosexual males to become homosexual pedophiles.

I don't believe that's the case at all...Altar boys are recruited into the queer lifestyle, by queer priests...One might wonder how many of these recruited boys grow up into the priest hood...Could be the elimination of unmarried priests may significantly reduce the recruitment of altar boys into the lifestyle of the queers and ultimately remove queer priest due to attrition...

I am curious as to the percentage of queer males in the country who have a Catholic background...

[Mrs. Don-o]

I object rightly to people spreading falsehoods about Catholic doctrine.

You said that the Catholic Church teces non-acceptance of non-Catholic Christians as Christians, and I informed you that we DO accept you That was a friendly correction, and I proved it by citing an authoritative source of Catholic doctrine. So it was friendly and accurate.

You said I was wrong, because you have never been accepted by your Catholic in-laws, whom you have lived with for 40 years. I said that your in-laws are ignoramuses: which is true, because they've somehow conveyed that their non-acceptance of you in Catholic doctrine, which it is not. They are ignorant of the truth.

Speaking, I hope, "like a pure Catholic", I have been conveying friendly (even fraternal) acceptance of YOU, and accuracy about Catholic doctrine.

Have a blessed day. I will pray for your in-laws. You might want to show them the part of the Catechism which says we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

[Mrs. Don-o]

This lacks explanatory power, because it fails to account for the fact that the major researchers in the field, like Philip Jenkins (LINK) and Charol Shakeshaft (LINK), have found the following:

• Married men are more likely to abuse children than unmarried
• Most child abuse takes place within the home. Child abuse is prevalent in all areas of society where there are lots of kids: schools, scouts, mentorship programs, youth organizations, sports, etc.
• Statistically, of all the professions, clergy are least likely to offend
• Doctors, Farmers and Teachers are the professions most likely to abuse children

Since the 1980's, when insurance companies started offering insurance for churches in sex abuse cases, the actuarial data has confirmed that there's no difference in the assessment of risk between Catholic Churches, Evangelical Churches, Synagogues, etc.

Charol Shakeshaft estimated that that "... the physical sexual abuse of students in [public] schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by [Catholic] priests."

So your underlying premise is not supported by the facts. You may need to revise your conclusions accordingly.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

True, no one is “forced” to be priest. But it’s a little more complicated than that. Back in the day, many older Catholics will recall, candidates for the seminaries and the priesthood were recruited at a much younger age than they are today. Back then it was quite common for many Catholic families to have a large number of children. Often in these families, it was very common for a large Catholic family to actively encourage a young son or daughter to enter vocations. And this practice was also encouraged by the Church as well. Teenagers as young as fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, were recruited for the seminaries. Of course many of those candidates and recruits were far from sexually or emotionally mature and this was a certainly a contributing factor to the homosexual/pedophile priest scandal which nearly destroyed the Church and continues to impact it to this day.

Today, of course, the situation has radically changed. Homosexuality is widely accepted by the public at large and in certain segments of our culture, most notably our mass media and entertainment sector often glamorize and celebrate the homosexual lifestyle. So there is little need now days for homosexuals to enter into the seminaries and the priesthood.

Consequently, as a result of all of these developments, most notably the increasing acceptance among the public of homosexual behavior and the pedophile/homosexual priest scandal, there are much fewer candidates for the seminary. Also on average, most new candidates are much older than was the case before. In most instances most men entering into the seminaries today have had previous careers and have been around the block a few times and are therefore sexually, emotionally, and psychologically mature and know full well what is expected of them. According to our pastor, the average age of man entering in to the seminary is now about thirty five, many of course are much older. The Church, in the wake of the scandal, has also introduced a very elaborate screening process complete with thorough physical and psychological examinations designed to weed out potential sexual offenders. According to our pastor only about one in ten potential candidates these days is actually accepted into the seminary.

[sakic]

I was talking to the Church’s problems.

[sakic]

The number of priests declined in 43 years while the population was doubling. That is an enormous dropoff.

If celibacy is part of religious doctrine, why was marriage and procreation allowed in the Church for hundreds of years?

Saying divorcing and remarrying is equivalent to adultery means that most of the people who post here are adulterers. I disagree.

The bottom line remains, that celibacy has damaged the reputation and membership of the Church. It will continue to do so. Biology will always trump the rules of the Church. God made us desire sexuality, Church rules cannot overcome biological drives.

[sakic]

Do you have numbers to back this up?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"If celibacy is part of religious doctrine, why was marriage and procreation allowed in the Church for hundreds of years?"

(I presume you mean "allowed in the priesthood" when you say "allowed in the Church." Obviously any church that required celibacy would basically be gone in a generationm.) Priestly elibacy is NOT part of religious doctrine. There's where your basic misunderstanding is. It is a discipline in the West under canon law, with plenty of exceptions. It is not theologically required: it is not a dogma. As I explained before (although you may have missed it) all of the 21 smaller (non-Latin) churches mostly in Eastern Europe and SW Asia, which comprise the Catholic Church have married priests and deacons, all of which are clergy. Under the Pope, they have their own Canon Law which has always allowed this.

The Latin Church also has married men who are ordained clergy: the permanent deacons.

"Saying divorcing and remarrying is equivalent to adultery means that most of the people who post here are adulterers. I disagree."

Your disagreement is not with me. I didn't say that. Jesus said that:

"Whoever divorces his wife, except in cases of porneia (unlawful union)), and marries another, commits adultery." (Matthew 19:9)

[sakic]

Glad to hear that you agree that American priests should be allowed to marry.

Since Jesus said it, somewhere around half of the posters at Free Republic are adulterers, including myself.

[Mrs. Don-o]

My own understanding, actually, is that in the West we need a lot more married deacons; and the Eastern rite churches (Melkite, Maronite, Ukrainian Greek Catholic, etc.) should restore their millennia-long custom of recruiting their priests from the ranks of married men.

It's not a question of "letting priests get married." That has never been OK in the last 2,000 years, whether amongst the Eastern Catholics, the Western Catholics, or the Orthodox. Priests can't get married. But married men could become priests.

Married, then priest: OK.

Priest, then getting married: not OK.

[sakic]

What is the difference?

[Mrs. Don-o]

If you're already a priest, you are already under a vow of celibacy, therefore you can't get married because you'd be breaking your vow.

If you're already married, you don't have a vow of celibacy, therefore of you become a priest you're not a celibate priest, you're a married one.

Same in East and West, Orthodox and Catholic.

I suppose they don't want men who are already priests, dating, signing up on an online matchmaking service, or doing whatever it is that a single guy will do, to find a suitable wife.

[terycarl]

Do you have numbers to back this up?

I assume that you refer to my statement concerning child abuse...google it and you will see results that will amaze you....this excuses no one, they are all trash but watch at whom you are casting stones!!