Posted on 05/30/2014 10:23:23 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
The date is as confused as Beckwith.
I listened as far as him speaking of sola scripture needing to be seen in wide context of doctrine. Then he wadered straight off into the weeds.
I feel sorry for those "Protestants" who must have never received baptism of the Holy Ghost personally themselves, then fall prey to the supposition that it is somehow present in the workings and Admin of the Roman Catholic Church.
There can be Spirit there...but for all of it (all that ecclesiastical body has done) and what it has become?
No way, Jose. It's still trying to drag itself out of the Dark Ages. It wasn't that long ago that a person could not hear that central portion -- called the mass -- in their own language. People were discouraged from reading the scripture -- for centuries! The Apostle Paul recommended no such practice, in fact Paul highly praised those who sought out the scripture to see if what he was saying was true or not.
Jan Hus was right on this score -- and the Roman Catholic Church finally agrees. It only took more about 500 years. What a shame. Is God that stupid?
No He is not.
But all the extra junk (how mankind can seriously screw things up) was not "His" plan in the first place (even as He knew what would indeed happen) with it being as the preacher said, as is written;
Ecclesiastes 7:29
It’s a little disingenuous to post something that’s seven years old as if it’s yesterday’s news, is what it is.
If it’s a religious system one wants there are tons out there, and the “Protestant” world IS fairly lackluster in comparison.
But Christ didn’t come to make our religion classy. He came to save our souls.
Matthew 13:3-9 “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away.
Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears, let him hear.”
Not all seed falls on good soil.
That's the only reason the guy would have turned his back on a profession of faith in Christ. It never took to begin with.
Thank you for your kind words. To tell you the truth, I started writing my thoughts, and then words and phrases just came flowing out. I choose to believe it was the Holy Spirit leading me.
I was blessed to attend an ‘Alpha Course’ training session last summer at Centre Street Church in Calgary. Among the many presenters who discussed the course were Spiritual Development Pastors from Centre Street Church and First Alliance Church, the two largest churches in Calgary, and the Spiritual Development representative from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Calgary. What he said was, the Roman Catholic church presents the exact same video series as Protestant churches do. All they do is add a couple of meetings to discuss aspects of Roman Catholicism not cover by the Nicky Gumbel videos.
The fact that two major branches of Christianity could work together so well, blessed and impressed me. I believe that it was in no small part, due to Bishop Fred Henry of Calgary. He is a conservative Bishop, going as far as to tell former Prime Minister Jean Chretien in 2003, that he risked his eternal salvation in supporting homosexual marriage. Obviously, he does not stress the differences between Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Protestantism, else the ‘Alpha’ training would not have included Roman Catholics. Respecting each others’ differences while focusing on common beliefs, I think Jesus would like that.
That’s ridiculous.
I have never in my life...56....heard my SBC preachers say diddly bout y’all
Not once.
I know about the Reformation from history not my pastors sermons.
Catholics on this forum beat all stirring crap up like y’all do
My churches over my lifetime have only questioned one Christian faith.....charismatics and tongues
I don’t mind Charismatics but most SBC preachers are suspicious
Yes, the “church” beneath the catacombs. They were beneath the Colluseum as well when those pseudo-Christians (aka Catholics) were being eaten.
Such classic projection!
With a few exceptions, most "protestants" and other nondenominational, whoever they are, don't give a moment's thought to [Roman] Catholicism.
The churches I have attended over the years -- NO ONE make mention of "Catholicism", though I am aware some pastors and teachers do (or have).
I didn't and still wouldn't, if it wasn't being rubbed in my face everyday on the pages of FreeRepublic.
Yet I have learned, I have investigated, I have studied, digging after what truth can be found in history and comparing theological aspects even prayerfully so, for enough hours I should have at least a bachelor's degree in apologetics, by now-- I do think I've seen about all that can be said of it as far as this forum goes -- INCLUDING the sort of comments which you have just made -- dozens if not hundreds of times.
Try bringing personal testimony, instead of promotion or Romanism and then I may listen, if the sound can make it through the callouses many of your co-religionists have taken so much effort to force upon me and any of this forum who dares contend for faith in Christ and even His own Spirit that can be freely enough for from the narrow confines of the RCC.
Shoot--- it took centuries for the "magesterium" to catch on to that sort of thing much occurring, being that the same occurred without their own express written consent, and the reality of that also refuting portions of their own navel-gazing Churchianity.
Does not the SBC require Catholic converts to the SBC to be re-baptized by immersion in rejection of their valid infant baptism? Even the Catholic Church recognizes a protestant baptism which uses the trinitarian formula.
Like I said, oppositional. By design.
Maybe it will "take" for him now.
Whatever it takes.
Is it now? Catholics don't look to protestants for affirmation of what they believe. It is the exact opposite. Only by comparing and contrasting one's theological beliefs in the mirror of Catholicism can a protestant determine the veracity their beliefs
With a few exceptions, most "protestants" and other nondenominational, whoever they are, don't give a moment's thought to [Roman] Catholicism
It doesn't have to be a conscious thought. It has become so ingrained it has become a subconscious reflex. Faith alone. Christ alone, etc. Whatever form such affirmations take there is always the embedded rejection of the Catholic Church even if the person sitting in the congregration doesn't realize it.
Try bringing personal testimony, instead of promotion or Romanism and then I may listen, if the sound can make it through the callouses many of your co-religionists have taken so much effort to force upon me and any of this forum who dares contend for faith in Christ and even His own Spirit that can be freely enough for from the narrow confines of the RCC.
And yet any personal testimony I might bring to the RF has been preemptively dismissed by you as being restricted within the narrow confines of Roman promotion. So what's the point? The Roman Catholic Church is my personal testimony. Unfortunately, the protestant predilection for describing things in post-enlightenment terms and a pre-occupation with "man-made things" prevents them from understanding that the Catholic Church is not just a visible institution but an organism residing within the Body of Christ.
More projection.
Rome decided to get into the church business around 42 A.D., whereas the earliest church labeled "Baptist" dates back to 1609 in Amsterdam, with English Separatist John Smyth as its pastor. So I'm not sure how that's possible unless he had a time machine and went back to over 200 years before Jesus.
Are their differences? Of course! To a non-Believer, they don't see the difference between a Roman Catholic and a Protestant. Focusing on these differences, trying to 'convert' each other, especially when human nature (the spirit of 'the world', aka Satan) takes hold, leading to anger and snide comments by both sides, takes us away from worship, allowing the Deceiver to gain a stronghold. Non-Believers see that and think that Christians don't have anything to show me; all they do is fight!
I am reminded of two Bible stories, one being the mother of Zebedees' sons, asking Jesus to have one sit on each side of Jesus in Heaven (Matt 20:20-21). The other story is what Jesus told His disciples when He sent the Apostles out to preach to Israel. (Matt 10:13-15) "If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city."
Since no Protestant is likely to become Roman Catholic, nor vice versa on FR, the constant posting of items that can inflame the 'other' group, no matter which 'other' group, and since Jesus told His disciples to 'shake the dust off their sandals', if they were not received, why go on doing such things? If the Apostles had ignored Jesus' instructions, how many fewer would have heard His message? I believe that if we are presenting our position (be it P or RC) and it is rejected, then stop it. If you don't, you are further inflaming others, potentially leading to a posting war. Muslim proselytize by war, followers of Jesus should not.
As far as worship and praise of Christ, I have taken part in leading worship and I have never 'backhanded(ly) slap(ped)' Roman Catholicism, at least to the best of my knowledge. I don't understand what you mean by that.
As far as 'Truth', the problem is that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) changed greatly from the Church of the Apostles, adopting many things from the Roman Empire and government. The RCC changed further by the time of Luther, adding concepts that were foreign to the Apostolic church. I believe that in SOME ways, the Protestant movement moved closer to the original church of the Apostles, but not in all ways so I believe that NEITHER group is fully in sync with the original Church.
The problem is that both churches were, are and will be, led by humans, with all the inherent frailties and weaknesses and SIN that comes with being human. As such, many men of God have added positively to each, yet, since no one is fully in tune with the Holy Spirit 100% of the time, they have changed doctrines, which, while on the surface are good, they may not be from the Holy Spirit and therefore, in error. Other men may have let the Holy Spirit lead for a little while, but soon took the lead themselves.
Two examples:
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
and more recently,
Jim Bakker, an Assemblies of God televangelist who defrauded viewers and committed adultery and tried to cover it up.
Unfortunately, there are WAY too many to list.
One need only look to the Temple in Jesus' time. Worship in the Temple had changed from Moses time, and Nehemiah's time when they rediscovered Moses' books. Undoubtedly, between then and Jesus time, many good men of God maintained the Temple. Over the centuries, 'yeast', be it error or evil, entered worship so that by Jesus time, the majority of the Pharisees were corrupt. It was so corrupt that Nicodemus, an uncorrupted Pharisee, chose to seek out Jesus in the middle of the night so as to not be seen.
The Church (RC, P, Orthodox), is far removed from the Apostolic church of the New Testament. Therefore, in my opinion, the Bible can be the only thing uncorrupted and we need to spend much time in prayer and meditation on the Bible, to ensure we understand the 'Truth'.
Thank you poster #9 !
Even in their worship and praise of Christ there is the backhanded slap to Catholicism.
Complete BS.
Catholicsism is virtually never referenced in any of the non-Catholic churches I have ever attended.
Our pastors have far more important things to attend to than bashing others. Our source of identity is being in Christ, not by who our *enemies* are, as the Catholic church bases its identity on.
This makes it very difficult to make common cause with protestants apart from the deep and fundamental theological issues that separate us. And in today's modern world the protestant, in an attempt to generate goodwill, takes the relativistic approach of, "we have so much in common." I don't think so. We cannot forsake Truth for some nebulous notion of tactical advantage for the sake of the nonbeliever.
And it's that elitist, snotty attitude of *we're right and y;all are going to hell because you're not Catholics* that puts the dividing wall up.
Other Protestant and Evangelical denominations have no problems working together and corroborating when need be because of the unity that we have in Christ.
It's Catholicism that tells the world that they have to convert or go to hell.
It's in its very own CCC, has been pronounced as so ex cathedra by popes, and there is currently an FR thread posting the same thing.
I don't see Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, etc, churches telling others that they have to become members of their church to get to heaven.
Wrong again.
Projection again.
We compare our beliefs to SCRIPTURE, which is the ONLY standard by which anything is to be compared.
Comparing Catholic teachings to Scripture shows just off base they are. Why would anyone want to compare what they believe to that?
It doesn't have to be a conscious thought. It has become so ingrained it has become a subconscious reflex. Faith alone. Christ alone, etc. Whatever form such affirmations take there is always the embedded rejection of the Catholic Church even if the person sitting in the congregration doesn't realize it.
In your dreams. Catholics wish that were the case. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy to think that everyone is secretly jealous over them and guilt ridden for leaving the alleged *One True Church*.
Guess again. We sleep at night. The nice, deep, peaceful sleep of the redeemed.
Faith alone and Christ alone because it's in Scripture, not because it's in opposition to Catholicism.
However, thanks for the tacit admission that Catholicism teaches that salvation is not through faith alone and not through Christ alone; that what Jesus did on the cross is not good enough to save anyone.
There's the catch. Catholics don't think that non-Catholics are already saved.
Here are two current threads on that very topic.
How Can Protestants Be Saved?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3159872/posts
Protestants Need to Convert (and Bad Catholics need to Revert)
That church has dropped a long ways since I used to go there, but that was the late 90s.
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