Posted on 05/30/2014 10:23:23 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
The president of the Evangelical Theological Society, an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians, resigned this month because he has joined the Roman Catholic Church.
The May 5 announcement by Francis J. Beckwith, a tenured associate professor at Baptist-affiliated Baylor University in Waco, Tex., has left colleagues gasping for breath and commentators grasping for analogies.
One blogger likened it to Hulk Hogan's defection from the World Wrestling Federation to the rival World Championship Wrestling league.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
So you disagree with Rome's affirmations of evangelicals as being born again, and their churches being instruments of salvation, and of Prots having saints in Heaven?
In reality, what is manifest is that many RCs finally are saved by grace in becoming evangelicals, escaping mainly liberal lost Rome.
But what is your basis for assurance that Rome is the one true church?
I am very suspect of this guy's born again experience since he took to looking for the wisdom of man (philosophy) as opposed to the wisdom of God which can only be found in the scriptures...
Beckwith said his decision reflects how dramatically the divisions between evangelicals and Catholics have narrowed in recent decades, as they have stood shoulder to shoulder on issues such as abortion, same-sex marriage and school vouchers.
This statement shows how bereft Beckwith is when it comes to the truth of scripture...God doesn't change...The bible and Catholicism aren't getting any closer together...They are still diametrically opposed...Is true that some liberal Protestant religions have gone ecumenical with the Catholics...
The stormy reaction, however, is a reminder of the gaps that remain, particularly on such theological questions as whether to baptize infants and how human beings gain "justification," or righteousness in the eyes of God.
Those gaps and many more just as significant are not gaps...They are valleys and one side of the equation will get people to heaven while the other side will send people directly to hell...
The best I can say is it's good for Protestantism that he moved back to the Catholic religion...It's unfortunate that he's able to keep his current job...
Indeed, or including him. About 4,370 results for "Francis Beckwith" says Google's site search. But NKP_Vet is seeking to win the RC propaganda contest and to silence those RCs who claim they are the one's whose faith is always attacked.
But wait, even he said "I never see threads of Catholics initiating an argument with protestants on FR. Never." As if Protestants Need to Convert and an article touting an evangelical apostate to Rome is not initiating an argument. But reality is supremely defined by RCs.
A couple articles in response.
Why Scripture and the Facts of History Compel Me, a Former Roman Catholic, to Remain a Committed Evangelical Protestant A Response to Frank Beckwith’s, Return to Rome William Webster
“Evangelical Theological Society”
Collection of liberal protestants who share a weak view of Scripture. He will feel at home in Rome.
Instead of swimming across the ol’ Tiber, he will find it a faster trip if he simply walks on the backs of millions of Hispanics swimming away from Rome.
These days, the Tiber is paved with Hispanics waving goodbye.
Not even close. And in the real kingdom of God, versus the worldly one, "how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (1 Corinthians 1:26-27)
And contrary to Rome, the church began with the common people recognizing what the magisterium would not. (Mk. 11:27-33)
Note also that the damage control response to the following, those of the lay Internet Magisterium excommunicating the majority of RCs under the premise that one cannot be a RCs and be liberal, will not work as Rome treats them as members in life and in death, even notorious public prosodomite murderers, and which is what manifests what she really believes. (Ja. 2:18; Mt/. 7:20)
In numbers (not percentage), Catholicism, which lists 68.1 million in the US, has experienced “the greatest net loss” of any major religious group. members. The 'had it' Catholics,” National Catholic Reporter ,Oct. 11, 2001, based on reports from the 2008 Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey and the National Council of Churches’ 2010 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches.
Those who have left Catholicism outnumber those who have joined the Catholic Church by nearly a four-to-one margin. 10.1% have left the Catholic Church after having been raised Catholic, while only 2.6% of adults have become Catholic after having been raised in a different faith.^ Pew forum, Faith in Flux (April 27, 2009) http://pewforum.org/uploadedfiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/fullreport.pdf
71% of converts from Catholicism to Protestant faith said that their spiritual needs were not being met in Catholicism, with 78% of Evangelical Protestants in particular concurring, versus 43% of those now unaffiliated. ^
55% of evangelical converts from Catholicism cited dissatisfaction with Catholic teachings about the Bible was a reason for leaving Catholicism, with 46% saying the Catholic Church did not view the Bible literally enough.
81% of all Protestant converts from Catholicism said they enjoyed the service and worship of Protestant faith as a reason for joining a Protestant denomination, with 62% of all Protestants and 74% Evangelicals also saying that they felt God's call to do so. ^
54% of “millennial generation” Catholics (born in 1982 or later) are Hispanics, while 39% are non-Hispanic whites. On the other hand, 76% of “pre-Vatican II generation” Catholics (born 1943 or earlier) are non-Hispanic whites, while 15% are Hispanics. Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) at Georgetown University, September, 2010 . http://www.osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/6850/Openers-More-evidence-of-the-browning-of-US-Cat.aspx
68% of all Latinos in the U.S. identify as Catholics. Changing Faiths: Latinos and the Transformation of American Religion http://pewforum.org/Changing-Faiths-Latinos-and-the-Transformation-of-American-Religion.aspx Baylor Institute for Studies of Religion - American Piety in the 21 Century – 9-2006 http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/33304.pdf
Among Catholics under the age of 30, 47% are white, and 45% are Latino. In contrast, among Catholics over the age of 65, 82% are white (Pew Forum 2007, reported in http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf)
Latinos comprised 32 percent of all U.S. Catholics in 2008, versus to 20 percent in 1990. However, Catholic identification has slipped from 66 percent in 1990 to 60 percent in 2008. There has also been a significant rise in the number of Latinos who do not adhere to a religion. The longer a Latino has lived in the United States, the less likely he or she is to be Catholic. Study of Secularism in Society and Culture at Trinity College, http://theamericano.com/2010/03/18/new-report-on-u-s-latino-religious-identification/
18% of all Latinos say they have either converted from one religion to another or to no religion at all. http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/75.4.pdf
1,000 Mexicans left the Catholic Church every day between 2000 and 2010, a decline that has continued uninterrupted over the past 60 years, from 98.21 of the population to 83.9 percent today. Latin American Herald Tribune, March 10, 2011, based upon census data and study by sociologist and historian Roberto Blancarte of Colegio de Mexico and the National Autonomous University of Mexico
The percentage of of Protestants and Evangelicals rose from 1.28% in 1950 to close to 8% of the total population in 2010, (excluding so-called Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons). 5.2 million say they profess no religion. ^
This decline is seen as extending across the region (Catholics represent between 55% to 73% in Central America, 70% in Brazil, 50% in Cuba and Uruguay).^
Brazil’s National Statistics Institute reported that the number of evangelical Christians in Brazil (the world’s largest Catholic country) has risen from 15% of the population in 2000 to to 22% of the population in 2010, and 4% 40 years ago, while the proportion of Catholic Brazilians fell from 93.% of Brazilians 40 years ago, and 74% of the population in 2000 to to 65% in 2010. http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/29/ratio-of-evangelicals-in-brazil-jumps-44-in-10-years/
Almost 20% of all Latino American Catholics have left the Roman Catholicism, with 23 percent of second-generation Latino Americans doing so. http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/33304.pdf
54% of Hispanic Catholics describe themselves as charismatic Christians. http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=75
51% of Hispanic Evangelicals are converts, and 43% are former Catholics. ^
82% of Hispanics cite the desire for a more direct, personal experience with God as the main reason for adopting a new faith. Among those who have become evangelicals, 90% say it was a spiritual search for a more direct, personal experience with God was the main reason that drove their conversion. Negative views of Catholicism do not appear to be a major reason for their conversion. ^ Much more, by God's grace .
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."Jesus didn't instruct his disciples to hand out Bibles, tell people to recite the sinner's prayer, or to make a confession of faith alone, although He could have. Jesus focused on two things: Baptism and Apostolic Teaching (which can be oral or written [i.e., Scripture]). The reception of both are normative for discipleship.
VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISMMore from the Catechism.1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
CCC
Baptism in the Church1226 From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28
1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29
The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31
1228 Hence Baptism is a bath of water in which the "imperishable seed" of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect.32 St. Augustine says of Baptism: "The word is brought to the material element, and it becomes a sacrament."33
Aquinas, this is a good example of the problems with simply copying and pasting what another body teaches, without an examination of the whole counsel of God.
The problem with your posted material is the many passages that make the forgiveness of sin, and salvation, dependent on absolutely nothing but trust in Christ (e.g., Acts 15:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Luke 24:47; John 3:16, 36; Rom. 4:1–17; 11:6; Gal. 3:8–9; Eph. 2:8–9).
Peter who is speaking in the passage you quote, later in the very same book, promised forgiveness of sins on the basis of faith alone (5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18).
You don’t need to ping me to all your posts.
I meant in general, I generally read the thread and keep up with it, and don’t need to be pinged to posts that aren’t specifically to me.
It’s funny, but when I typed in Beckwith last night I got a lot of 2007 threads and other years, but today, only one.
When I use google and freerepublic, I see lots of threads on him going back to 2006 when he didn’t get tenure at Baylor, and in all the years since.
Another thing about search, when you click on the google freerepublic link, it often takes you to the article, and not the FR thread.
"Having read [Francis Beckwith]’s book, I am appalled at the blatant misrepresentation of both the Reformed teaching as well the teaching of Roman Catholicism. His lack of knowledge on historical issues is forgivable, given his ignorance, but to misrepresent and caricature the Reformed faith and to misrepresent the salvation teachings of Rome is simply irresponsible and dishonest..."
-- from the internet article
Why Scripture and the Facts of History Compel Me, a Former Roman Catholic, to Remain a Committed Evangelical Protestant -
A Response to Frank Beckwith’s Return to Rome
"....I'd never even heard of the "Evangelical Theological Society" before this week, and I'm supposed to believe that the impact of Beckwith's conversion is equal to the Donut Repair Man's?"
-- Me, shortly after this story first broke, on May 9, 2007
For those (including Protestants and evangelical Christians) who are foolish enough to believe the Roman Catholic church is biblically sound and doctrinally correct in regard to a whole host of spiritual, theological issues and doctrines concerning faith and practice: All one has to do is CAREFULLY read the Canons, Decrees and damning "anathema" pronouncements of the Council of Trent and compare them with the clear teaching of the Word of God concerning nearly each and every one of the issues covered by the Council of Trent and you will find (if you are intellectually honest with the text and context of the passages and doctrinal issues under consideration) that the Canons and Decrees of the Roman Catholic church, as codified at Trent, are in point-of-fact diametrically opposed to the clear teaching of Scripture in these matters!
*It is also vitally important to note that NONE of the Canons, Decrees or damning "anathema" pronouncements of the Council of Trent have EVER been rescinded and are in force to this very day!
Therefore, in light of the above, it is utter folly for any Protestant, evangelical Christian or so-called Protestant/evangelical theologian to believe that Roman Catholicism can officially "coexist" with Protestants or evangelical Christianity. It is impossible because the OFFICIAL doctrine and pronouncements of the Roman Catholic church DAMN every one of us to hell! Why? Because what Protestants and evangelical Christianity proclaims, teaches and believes is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Rome and officially rejected by the Roman Catholic church as heresy!
The logical conclusion to all of the above is this: Roman Catholicism and Protestantism/Evangelical Christianity can not both be correct because their doctrine and teachings are diametrically opposed to one another. Therefore it all boils down to a question of ULTIMATE AUTHORITY:
Who, or better yet, WHAT is going to be the sole authority and basis for your FAITH (doctrine/what you believe) and PRACTICE (how you live your life, based upon what you believe)? In the case under discussion, there are only two choices: The Roman Catholic church (its official teachings, doctrines, pronouncements and "traditions") or the Word of God. The choice is yours, but choose wisely because your eternal destiny depends upon the choice you make.
Again, baptism is right for salvation, but salvation from what? From the wages of sin? That is justification, and is done when Jesus baptizes us in the Holy Spirit, placing us in Christ. Water baptism is not said to do that.
For salvation from the evil world around us, as Peter preached in Acts 2? Yep: “And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.”
So yes, we were commanded to baptize with water, but not to give a new life to a convert. It is to separate us from the world around us, as Peter said water baptism “which corresponds to” what the Flood did for Noah.
Folks need to ask themselves why John said he baptized with water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit OR with the fire of destruction. Jesus will baptize EVERYONE, either BEFORE Judgment Day with the Holy Spirit, or AFTER Judgment Day with fire. And it is the Baptism done by Jesus in the Holy Spirit which Paul says places us in Christ:
“For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”
I’m a Baptist, so I’m not likely to denigrate baptism with water! But I also want to follow scripture, and it teaches that water baptism is not for justification, but sanctification.
I forgot to add:
You cite: “18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19”Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Notice Jesus is commanding we “make disciples” and “teach[] them to observe all that I commanded you”. That is a part of salvation, but justification - being made clean in God’s eyes - happens right away. Sanctification, separating ourselves “from this crooked generation”, to use Peter’s words, is a life-long process which God has predestined us to do (see Romans 8).
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