Posted on 05/26/2014 4:13:56 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne
Please forgive my lack of clarity. I was speaking of the Bible being reading publicly at the Mass, not necessarily individual Catholics reading the Bible on their own at home.
As you no doubt remember from your childhood, at the Mass a layperson (or sometimes more than one layperson) reads passages from the Holy Scriptures. Generally, it is a passage from the Old Testament, then a Psalm, and then a passage from the New Testament (a passage from an epistle, for example). Then the priest reads a passage from the Gospels. The Scripture passages are taken from the Lectionary.
My contention is that this practice of publicly reading large portions of the Holy Scriptures is rarely seen in Evangelical churches.
Oh good grief, I did no such thing.
Let me spell it out for you. You will say "Catholics pray to dead people". Then someone says the "Holy Spirit knocked on my door." The claim that saints living in heaven are dead people is wrong, from a Catholic perspective. So when someone claims the Holy Spirit literally knocks on his door as a salesman, yes, I'm going to point out how silly that sounds coming from someone who thinks saints are not alive in heaven.
I know he meant it figuratively, but my point should seem clear enough. Apparently it wasn't, or perhaps you're just looking for the argument.
When the Bible was first written there was no punctuation. It was added later.
Jesus said “ I tell you today, you shall be with me in Paradise”. It has a completely different meaning than “I tell you, today you shall be with me in Paradise”
How about you worry about your self and leave Catholics to follow their concience . KTHXBY
I've never accused the Holy Spirit of being dead nor will I ever do so. He is quit alive from the teaching of the Bible.
Please do not lump me into threads for which I've not commented on.
Thanks for posting the MacArthur thread. You are doing the Lord’s work by posting information that would enlighten, enrich, and transform the lives of many people — especially those who post anti—[Biblical/historical] Christian threads here several times per day.
God’s Blessings on you as you field their fiery darts.
If truly added later and since the punctuation placement results in two very different meaning in numerous instances then how is anyone able to declare “THIS” is what is meant?
And before anyone goes into that God is unchanging rant there is the examples in the Old Testament such as Lot bargaining regarding the number of righteous men needed in order to spare the city.
Mere humans can tie ourselves in knots trying to understand God.And many mere humans try to tie God up in a tidy little package of human design.
I always enjoy John MacArthur! He is right on the mark with this series on the Catholic Church.
I can relate as I was Catholic for 27 years (12 year Catholic School with daily religion classes).
John MacArthur is a faithful minister of the Gospel. This series is 8 years old and a part of his job in shepherding the flock of God. He MUST warn about a “grace/works” salvation being false.
And who decided where the comma went?
May you have a pious Ascension Thursday!
MacArthur is 90% right when going after word-faith pents (alas has to make typical prot errors in there):
https://www.tmstrangefire.org/
Here’s where he’s really good- gets 99% correct mark from urs truly but even that 1% off could put him square into Matthew 7:
[22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. :
John MacArthur - Is Speaking in Tongues Demonic? 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVSLc0cqlZM 15 minutes
First few minutes may have non-Catholic interpretations of scripture but mid video on is quite good…but he still has protestant versions of “church”.
John Macarthur - Is Speaking in Tongues Demonic? 2/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMWD5mWxMSo 15 minutes
again Caveat Lector from a Catholic but seems MacArthur is basically correct here concentrating on 1 Cor Chap 14 [below Douay Rheims]. At end he cites that Christ in Matthew 6 [7] And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard. Concentrating on Greek he concludes the warning is against automatapia as buzz-zzzzipp-
John Macarthur - Is Speaking in Tongues Demonic? 3/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mBKzQN8RS4 15 minutes
continues in basic soundness as to “tongues” but fails as to why we go to “church” etc. Still worth listening to…
First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians
Chapter 14
The gift of prophesying is to be preferred before that of speaking strange tongues.
[1] Follow after charity, be zealous for spiritual gifts; but rather that you may prophesy. [2] For he that speaketh in a tongue, speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man heareth. Yet by the Spirit he speaketh mysteries. [3] But he that prophesieth, speaketh to men unto edification, and exhortation, and comfort. [4] He that speaketh in a tongue, edifieth himself: but he that prophesieth, edifieth the church. [5] And I would have you all to speak with tongues, but rather to prophesy. For greater is he that prophesieth, than he that speaketh with tongues: unless perhaps he interpret, that the church may receive edification.
[1] Prophesy: That is, declare or expound the mysteries of faith.
[2] Not unto men: Viz., so as to be heard, that is, so as to be understood by them.
[6] But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophecy, or in doctrine? [7] Even things without life that give sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction of sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? [8] For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? [9] So likewise you, except you utter by the tongue plain speech, how shall it be known what is said? For you shall be speaking into the air. [10] There are, for example, so many kinds of tongues in this world; and none is without voice.
[11] If then I know not the power of the voice, I shall be to him to whom I speak a barbarian; and he that speaketh, a barbarian to me. [12] So you also, forasmuch as you are zealous of spirits, seek to abound unto the edifying of the church. [13] And therefore he that speaketh by a tongue, let him pray that he may interpret. [14] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is without fruit. [15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing with the spirit, I will sing also with the understanding.
[12] Of spirits: Of spiritual gifts.
[16] Else if thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that holdeth the place of the unlearned say, Amen, to thy blessing? because he knoweth not what thou sayest. [17] For thou indeed givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. [18] I thank my God I speak with all your tongues. [19] But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue. [20] Brethren, do not become children in sense: but in malice be children, and in sense be perfect.
[16] Amen: The unlearned, not knowing that you are then blessing, will not be qualified to join with you by saying Amen to your blessing. The use or abuse of strange tongues, of which the apostle here speaks, does not regard the public liturgy of the church, (in which strange tongues were never used,) but certain conferences of the faithful, ver. 26, etc., in which, meeting together, they discovered to one another their various miraculous gifts of the Spirit, common in those primitive times; amongst which the apostle prefers that of prophesying before that of speaking strange tongues, because it was more to the public edification. Where also not, that the Latin, used in our liturgy, is so far from being a strange or unknown tongue, that it is perhaps the best known tongue in the world.
[21] In the law it is written: In other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and neither so will they hear me, saith the Lord. [22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers; but prophecies not to unbelievers, but to believers. [23] If therefore the whole church come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in unlearned persons or infidels, will they not say that you are mad? [24] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or an unlearned person, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all. [25] The secrets of his heart are made manifest; and so, falling down on his face, he will adore God, affirming that God is among you indeed.
[26] How is it then, brethren? When you come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation: let all things be done to edification. [27] If any speak with a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and in course, and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him hold his peace in the church, and speak to himself and to God. [29] And let the prophets speak, two or three; and let the rest judge. [30] But if any thing be revealed to another sitting, let the first hold his peace.
[31] For you may all prophesy one by one; that all may learn, and all may be exhorted: [32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [33] For God is not the God of dissension, but of peace: as also I teach in all the churches of the saints. [34] Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. [35] But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.
[36] Or did the word of God come out from you? Or came it only unto you? [37] If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord. [38] But if any man know not, he shall not be known. [39] Wherefore, brethren, be zealous to prophesy; and forbid not to speak with tongues. [40] But let all things be done decently, and according to order.
should try to explain that the longer crop is from
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53014.htm
still not sure of dates but I believe abridged Haydock commentary of Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition.
http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id175.html
OK while we’re here (MacArthur merely has put together a vid whereas others have done some great written work):
Speaking in Tongues: Sign of Blessing, Sign of Judgment
$10.00 http://catholicintl.com/#!/~/product/id=6519297
Speaking in Tongues A Historical, Psychological, and Biblical Analysis
by Robert Sungenis http://www.love4theword.org/tongues.htm
again a fundie so caveat lectors but its generally very good:
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/tongues_part_i.html
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