I hope that is quite clear to you.
Only the verses in the Bible is any indication to me.
I have noticed so many times when some one does not believe what is generally indicated by the Bible verses they will come up with the diverse meaning of the words.
Not that I am pointing this at you in this case but a good example is 1 Cor ch 11, many people will say that Jesus had long hair and they will come up with all kinds of arguments to show that the scripture says anything except what it does say.
Paul goes to some length to tell the people that a man and woman show who and what they are by their hair and he sums it up in verse 14
1 Cor 11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
This is true of almost the same words in most any translation you want to read even though many translations are contradicting themselves.
Also in the same chapter Paul says that a man must examine himself when he partakes of the communion, many Churches deny this, they say he must be examined by the Church leader or leaders.
When I was fairly new to the Church in the early seventies a preacher and his wife came to see my wife and me, he introduced himself and he introduced his wife as a preacher also.
I was kind of innocent even though I was in my thirties, I thought every one believed the same way and that was as the Bible said.
So I exclaimed ;I thought the bible said a woman was not supposed to preach;
The woman took what I said to be a smart remark rather than sincerity and she said, I don`t care what the bible says, god called me to preach any way, the man just grinned and said yep that is what the bible says.
If any one has to get away from the Bible to prove or disprove it, where does this leave us?
Ephesians 5:18 - And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; (If some one is drunk with wine it is excess.)
1 Tim 3:3 Not given to wine
1 Tim 3:8 not given to much wine,
Titus 2:3 - The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
John 2:10 - And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Matthew 11:19 - The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Acts 2:13 - Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
My conclusion is that there would be no reason for any of the above scriptures if wine was only grape juice, they would be of no use at all.
So, tell me, how would you define "excess"? What is the meaning of that word, precisely? Scripture says to not even look (with a longing gaze) at wine when it is red (caused by the effect on color centers by partial, anaerobic, fermentation). Purple wine is not alcoholic, but it is still "wine" in both Hebrew and Greek. Wine as translated in the Bible can be either, depending on the indications of the context.
I'm sorry, if you dig into the principles of precise interpretation, you will find that such a rendering of the Greek can not lead you to the sense you have written. That is a lacvk of understanding what the translators tried to give us in English, and forcing it into supporting your preference. Unfortunately, though the AV is correct, its ambiguosity can result in grave errors to the unwary or careless.
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Eph 5:18 TR
και μη μεθυσκεσθε οινω εν ω εστιν ασωτια αλλα πληρουσθε εν πνευματι
και -- And ;(conjunctive, theme extending from verses 15-17)
μη -- stop ; (this is a "no," but in the negative imperative sense, it means "do not")
μεθυσκεσθε -- getting yourselves drunk with, intoxicating yourselves using; (verb,present tense, passive voice, middle mode, 2nd person plural)
οινω -- wine; (noun, dative, singular, masculine, though οινω is not necessarily of the fermented variety, here the txt and context denads thatthis fluid referred to contains ethanol, a deadly poison, a toxin, which makes wine containing alcohol at any level an in-toxic-ant, and consuming any amount in-toxic-ates.) εν -- [by]; (preposition, context defining use)
ω -- [means of] which; (noun, dative [of instrumentality], singular, masculine, "which" being masculine refers to the alcoholic wine, whereas neuter would have referred to the action of ingesting)
εστιν -- is; (verb, present tense, active voice, inicative mode, 3rd person, singular)
ασωτια -- debauchery, the habitual lifestyle of a determinedly unsaved person; (noun, nominative, feminine, singular, from α = negative and σώζω = to save, meaning "unsaved" and not "unsafe", in the precise tecnical Biblical sense)
(translation into English would suggest at this point the use of the exclamation point to lend emphasis to this admonition)
αλλα -- But on the contrary (conjunction, denoting contrariwise and instead of habitually drinking alcoholic wine like an unsaved person would)
πληρουσθε -- constantly/habituaslly be being fully filled (verb, present tense, passive voice, middle mode, 2nd person plural, be completely filled to the brim)
εν -- [by]; (preposition, context defining use)
πνευματι -- [means of] [The] Spirit; (noun, dative [of instrumentality], singular, neuter, the context demands that the Spirit mentioned is The Spirit of The God)
(Exclamation point here for the same purpose)
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Here is a translation agreeing with the KJV, but less ambiguous in the message, and carrying across the nuances of the Koine:
"And stop intoxicating yourselves using wine, by means of which is debauchery! But, on the contrary, constantly be being fully filled by The Spirit!"
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In summary, only the regenerated believer-disciple child of The God is indwelt by The Holy Spirit; and if he/she has been ignorant of God's will for His child, he/she is to immediately stop being unwise (v. 17), completely cease the practices of unsaved fools (v. 15) to partake of alcoholic wine at any level; and commit themselves to allow the Holy Ghost to fill them fully to overflowing. The passage goes on to urge them to sing to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, making melody in their hearts as unto The God.
In a similar fashion, the born-anew children of God are begged to let the Word of The Christ dwell in them richly, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in their hearts unto the Lord (Col. 3:16).
Now, two things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other. The idea then is for true Christians to stop demonstrating debaucery be becoming intoxicated to any degree; rather, they should allow the Holy Ghost to indoctrinate them with the Word of The Christ, becoming exhuberant with the new wine of the spirit.
I see nowhere in the New Testament where followers of Jesus are exhorted to be filled with the Spirit by enjoying a nice relaxing liter or two of Beaujoulais with their next Chateaubriand a deux, do I?
(That's one of the references you cited. For another, prove any way you think you can of Jesus ever making or consuming alcoholic wine. I'll wait. See: Did Jesus Make Alcoholic Wine?)
Warning:
One claiming to be a Bible believer, but on the other hand holding forth for tolerance of casual recreational "wine" drinking (or other alcoholic beverages) is a horribly anti-Christian example for one's children, for "weak" brethren (who are actually stronger when they refuse on a spiritual Scriptural basis), for the onlooking world of angels who have not yet left their first estate, and for the watching lost world of unsaved humans crying for relief from the wages of sin. But for sure, it will not lead to rewards in heaven -- nor on earth, in the end.
I beg you, give up on that stand of refusing the Will of God.
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