So, tell me, how would you define “excess”?
A few can drink with out any change, their conservation is still the same.
That is my view and has no more to do with scripture than the question that prompted it.
Scripture says to not even look (with a longing gaze) at wine when it is red >>>>
You left off part of the scripture ( when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.)
Other scriptures to consider.
1When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what [is] before thee:
20Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
The self righteous accused Jesus of being a wine bibber because he had obviously drink a little wine.
30They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
I have never drink any new wine and I have never drink any wine while it was fermenting ( [when] it moveth itself aright.)
But you can see that the writer of Proverbs knew how to make wine.
Proverbs 31
1The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
2What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows?
3Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
You can see very plainly that wine is a fermented drink.
I don`t know why you are writing down all of this foreign language, I do not understand it, that is why I depend on the Bible that has been translated.
The Latin vulgate was commissioned in 382 ad, the KJV was put out in 1611 and every thing I have read in them compares, some different words but the same meaning.
So I am not sure I understand you correctly or not but you seem to be saying that when Paul told Timothy to drink a little wine for the stomachs sake he was only talking about grape juice, and when Jesus made wine he only made grape juice.
So when the religious leaders accused Jesus of being a winebibber are you saying that Jesus was only drinking grape juice with the sinners, wow what sinners they were.
“And stop intoxicating yourselves using wine, by means of which is debauchery! But, on the contrary, constantly be being fully filled by The Spirit!”>>>>>
1Cor 11
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
By reading the above scripture you can see very plainly that these people started coming together to eat the Lords supper but it turned out to be just a party.
you can see that they did not stop with eating just a piece of bread and a cup of wine, they turned it into a feast, some were drunk, you do not get drunk on grape juice.
Paul is not complaining about the wine, he is complaining because they have turned the Lords supper into a feast therefore they were not coming together to eat the Lords supper but to show off.
I beg you, give up on that stand of refusing the Will of God.
Believe me I am trying, but to put one thing in the Bible when there are a dozen things to contradict it is not my way of doing it.
Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary gives two definitions for "excess":
1 a: a state of surpassing or going beyond limits
1 b: something that exceeds what is usual, proper, proportionate, or specified
1 c: the amount or degree by which one thing or number exceeds another
2: undue or immoderate indulgence
You have chosen definition #2, when the Bible context specifies that going beyond ZERO ingesting of alcoholic beverage (wine or strong drink) is the degree beyond what the Holy Spirit does not permit if He is to be in control of your spiritual life--if Jesus is to be Lord of All. That would be is definition #1.
If the amount permitted was beyond zero (and it is not), then you, governed by your fickle heart (influenced by how high your BAC is)(Jeremiah 17:9-10), have no basis to judge what your tolerance is, nor that of anyone else.
Actually, state legislatures have arbitrarily but uniformly set a limit of 0.08% BAC as the limit for vehicle operation, thus indicating that even one beer incapacitates one's driving ability to an unacceptable degree.
But in fact, the Holy Ghost has set an unarguable and determinable limit of BAC for fellowshipping with you, and that is ZERO, and that is also a condition of employment as a servant of The Lord. Resistance to that rule is also a measure of the limit of one's spiritual maturity, which is the level of resistance to chastening by the Holy Spirit. It sets up a standard by which any observer, saved or not, can easily distinguish from one's doctrine whether the person is a follow of Christ, or not.
Absolute intransigency in taking the position that the Holy Spirit permits some recreational imbibing (but with what self-imposed bounds?) is a flag that the person is a spiritual danger to self and others, and should be treated as if he/she were unsaved as well as unreliable in opinion.
Why is that? It is because the word ασωτια is "from a compound of G1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of G4982" (Thayer); is "properly unsavedness, that is, (by implication) profligacy" (Strong); that is, the partaker of any amount of intoxicating substance is implicitly practicing the habitual behavior and mentality of an unsaved, unspiritual person.
If it was your son, who was buried before his time, on his 27th birthday because of his high BAC causing his fatal accident, as mine was; then you would begin to understand the level of chastening The God might administer to you for your mindset and conduct before your children as the example whom you think they ought to imitate.
I honestly hope you are getting this nugget of holy wisdom by inference, rather than by the chastening you will receive if you are unteachable now (Hebrews 12:5-8).
Beyond this, I cannot help you.
ravenwolf: You left off part of the scripture ( when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.)
I guess you missed the point that I left them off because they are only two more physical manifestations that prove that a particular batch of wine has changes brought about by fermentation: (1) the "color in the cup" effect is due to increase in the index of refraction caused by the ethanol content, and lending a sparkle; and (2) "moving itself aright" is a description of the changed behavior of the fluid as it runs down from the sides of the glass/cup after being swirled around the bowl, where differential evaporation of the ethanol causes "tears" to form--one of the qualities observed by wine connoisseurs, which they describe as "having legs." Grape juice does not show this.
I left them off because they would simply take more time to explain, and when obeying the first instruction was alone enough to prove the Holy Ghost's intent regarding the wine. Did you think I was trying to hide some unfavorable or unexplainable points? In Proverbs, the Wise Preacher under the Holy Ghost's influence, is instructing us to leave the wine sporting these qualities alone, as they are obvious qualities by which the stupidest observer can know that the alcoholic wine is intoxicating, not harmless.
That is a direct order to the believer by the Holy Ghost: "Do not drink any of this wine at all when it gives these signs!" Obeying that command is a spiritual response of unquestioning, prompt, and trusting obedience, seen and honored by God and the angels. It is not the response of a carping, whining spiritual babe who wants to continue his/her own ways without conforming them to God's ways.
"Blessed is every one that feareth The LORD, that walketh in His Ways" (Psalm 128:1).
BTW, in citing these other verses in your post is not a revelation. In fact, they are covered in the link I gave you to the Way of Life site, if you would just take the time to go there and peruse the fine discussion of this matter. I'm getting tired of repeating answers to certain points that are quite simple to find elsewhere.
Whoops! You did it agasin! Nowhere there does it say tha Jesus actualy was a winebibber, or that he even drank any intoxicating wine. He might even have been sitting in the company of boozers, but he certainly did not make them his "pals." Non-alcoholic wine was certainly available, had he wanted some, or had taught his disciples to use that. You don't know, and it is a pretty big error to assume that "he obviously drank a little weine. You are ready to put him in the seat of a drinker just the same as those who falsely accused him. You're doing the same thing here, without any authority to do so. You need to have a different approach to reading Scripture, IMHO.
I have never drink any new wine and I have never drink any wine while it was fermenting ( [when] it moveth itself aright.)
"New wine" takes two forms in the Bible. The first is freshly-pressed (non-alcoholic) grape juice, newly made juice. The second is gleucos, said by commentators to be alcoholic wine made from grapes that had a high sweetness, containing much sugar, and able to ferment to a higher ethanol content simiilar to our 12% wines of today. It is the second type that the onlookers accused the 120 newly Spirit-baptized believers of. But the significant point was that they were speaking known languages of Jews from all sections of the globe knew, those who had come to the Temple for Pentecost. They were NOT drunk with wine. In fact, we can safely assume fro verses like Eph. 5:18 that they were not drinking ANY intoxicants, or the Holy Ghost would have been prevented, and drunkeness would be blamed.
Furthermore, you do not know what this "moveth itself aright" means. It does not mean still fermenting. I means the behavior of red or white wines that exhibit differential evaporation of ethanol in the wine to cause "tears," to "get legs" when swirled around, as the film of fluid falls back down the container walls. Instead of evenly draining down, the liquid at the rim forms drops years, that fall down in streaks. Any wine tester will tell you that. It is a visual test for discerning whether the juice is intoxicating. It is a test instituted by Proverbs to indicae wine that the one who wishes to obey God will not drink.