Posted on 05/12/2014 6:52:28 PM PDT by Gamecock
Edited on 05/12/2014 6:57:47 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
VATICAN CITY - Pope Francis on Monday declared that everyone has the right to be baptized, even aliens should they come knocking on the church's door.
Christians cannot "close the door" to all those who seek baptism even if they are "green men, with a long nose and big ears, like children draw," the pope said at his daily Mass, according to Vatican Radio.
(Excerpt) Read more at gmanetwork.com ...
Maybe he knows something we don’t.
You mean like his ha-ha that “proselytism is nonsense”? and other gems? Yeah, Francis is a barrel of laughs. Given many of his so-called serious remarks are a joke, perhaps he should avoid attempts at comedy at all costs.
Given many of his so-called serious remarks are a joke, perhaps he should avoid attempts at comedy at all costs.
A Pope and an alien walk into a bar....
I'm not so sure about that...The pope is aware I'm sure of the gigantic Vatican telescope over there in Italy named Lucifer that has teamed up with NASA in looking for extra terrestrial life in the cosmos...
Your religion is actively looking for these ETs that your pope is referring to...
I think that the vatican’s gigantic telescope named Lucifer is on top of Mount Graham in southern Arizona. The native Indians fought against it for years, but the church won the battle.
Yes it is Mt Graham, and the telescope is not 'Lucifer', but rather, the infra-red component is named 'Lucifer'... which component is not the Vatican's by ownership... However, Iscool's statement stands all the same.
The Vatican has of late made several statements like the one in the OP in preparation for (IMHO) disclosure.
I don't think anyone expects Popes to be perfectly, sinless humans, but, shouldn't your Popes at least be held to the same strictures Paul and Peter said were required of church leaders? You know, stuff like:
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away. (I Peter 5:1-4)
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap. In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. (I Timothy 3:1-10)
But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. (I Timothy 5:20)
The only time a pope is guaranteed to speak correctly is when speaking ex cathedra on faith and morals. There have only been a couple or so ex cathedra pronouncements in history, and JPII's one-off about dogs have souls was not one of them.
Granted, even Popes misspeak and can be misinterpreted, but I don't think it is unusual to think, since they are looked up to in your religion as THE leader, what they publicly say ought to match what are official church doctrines. Paul reproved Peter OPENLY and he changed his ways, some Roman Catholic Popes have been allowed to continue in that position even after their gross immorality was public knowledge. It is and was a scandal that nothing was done to depose some of them and they only were replaced when they finally died (occasionally being murdered by their waiting replacement).
Some Catholics trot out this "ex cathedra" excuse to somehow rationalize the times Popes have said things that contradict Roman Catholic doctrines, but these doctrines and dogmas are not under the category of "ex cathedra" in nearly all cases, so there IS, and should be, an expectation that Popes at least would express and believe what the Catechism teaches and not say things that imply they don't, don't you think?
Its also a false assumption to think that the Holy Spirit will always give you what you need, rather than what you deserve (regarding a certain pope).
Once again we can turn to Scripture for that answer and see that such positions within the church are NOT to be taken lightly:
Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity. Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you. Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (I Timothy 4:12-16)
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin. (I Timothy 5:21-22)
A quote by someone I can't recall goes roughly along the lines of "If Judas could be an Apostle of Christ, why should we be surprised that there are vile popes?"
Okay...but Judas wasn't allowed to continue in their ministry and wouldn't have been even if he hadn't committed suicide after he betrayed the Lord. We can easily see that in the exhortations both Paul and Peter gave to those they passed on to the ministry of reconciliation. I don't deny that your church has had some truly Godly men in its past and present, even, but I don't believe there should be any reason to gloss over the failings of some of them - failings that were MUCH more than simply human errors or slip-ups. These men, I think, were allowed to reign because of moral failures within the hierarchy, and not in spite of them. Just ask yourself this, would St. Peter have ordained men such as Urban II, Sixtus IV, Innocent VIII, Alexander VI or Leo X, as well as the others counted as "bad Popes"? What were they doing in that position in the first place IF the Roman Catholic Church truly is THE church Jesus established and whom He promised to lead into all truth with the "gates of hell" never prevailing? I think these are legitimate questions those outside of Catholicism, but still Christian, have and which Catholics should not brush off as insignificant or count as anti-Catholic bigotry.
Well said.
While no one expects perfection from a religious leader, there should be a higher degree of fidelity to the doctrines of his particular faith than what is expected the day someone joined.
He’s the Pope for frying out loud! He should understand the organization he is running.
A little suspect on FR, though...
Now you're cookin' with Crisco! ; )
"Peter understood his mistake (about the Gentiles) in a vision that enlightened him regarding a fundamental truth, that what God has purified, not one can call ‘profane’. Peter clears up all the doubts of his critics saying,"If then God gave them the same gift he gave to us for believing in the Lord Jesus, who was I to hinder God?”The Pope said, “When the Lord points us the way, who are we to say, ‘No Lord, it’s not prudent. Let’s do it this way?”
My first point is this: you ought to look up the source before proclaiming what he did or did not say. The article obviously did not reprint a transcript of Pope Francis' whole Monday homily.
Second, reasonable reading reveals that his point was not about the imminent or expected arrival of a LGM delegation, but he was making a comical picture ("green men with long noses, big ears as children would draw them") in order to emphasize not judging by appearances, but judging by "If then God gave them the same gift he gave to us for believing in the Lord Jesus."
I'm sure you can see that. Text from page http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/05/12/pope:_we_are_no_one_to_close_the_door_on_the_holy_spirit_/in2-798651
of the Vatican Radio website
That's what I thought too...Just recently I thought I read it was in Italy...Guess I was wrong about the location...
Thanks for page 2 and the rest of the story...
A little suspect on FR, though...
Reason eh??? Man's reasoning...Man's wisdom...
1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co_1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co_3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Jas_1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God (not Aristotle), that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Why in the world would you guys look to human philosophers instead of God??? And then pat each other on the back for it???
Because God inspired the word. He did not write them.
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