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To: Gamecock

“Every objection you have is answered in this passage of Scripture”.

No it does not. Romans 9 is not talking about individual salvation, but God’s right to decide who he chooses. When Paul wrote “Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”, he was quoting MALACHI. He was talking about tribes and nations, not individuals.


“We have already noted that God’s Old Covenant people were chosen in Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. More specifically, God chose Abraham and his descendants, but limited his election of Abraham’s descendants to only some of them by his choice of Isaac as the head of the covenant through whom Abraham’s covenant descendants were to be reckoned. He then limited his election of the covenant descendants even further by his choice of Jacob as the head of the covenant. At the same time, and as already pointed out above, people not naturally related to Jacob and so not part of the elect people could join the chosen people, becoming part of the elect. On the other hand, individual members of the elect people could be cut off from the covenant people due to violation of the covenant, rendering them non-elect.

Finally, the Apostle Paul would argue, God limited his election even further to Christ as the head of the New Covenant (Gal. 3–4; see especially 3:16; cf. Rom. 3–4; 8), which is the fulfillment of the Old. Paradoxically, this also widened the election of God’s people because all who are in Christ by faith are chosen by virtue of their identification with Christ the corporate covenantal head, opening covenant membership to Gentiles as Gentiles. Just as God’s Old Covenant people were chosen in Jacob/Israel, the Church was chosen in Christ (as Eph. 1:4 puts it). And as Ephesians 2 makes clear, Gentiles who believe in Christ are in him made to be part of the commonwealth of Israel, fellow citizens with the saints, members of God’s household, and possessors of the covenants of promise (2:11-22; note especially vv. 12, 19). Indeed, any Jews who did not believe in Jesus were cut off from the elect people, and any believing Gentiles who stop believing will likewise be cut off, while anyone who comes to faith, whether Jew or Gentile, will be incorporated into God’s people (Rom. 11:17-24).

In the New Covenant, God’s people are chosen corporately as a consequence of their union with Christ, which is effected by faith. While this is not quite the traditional Arminian position, it fully supports Arminian theology because it is a conditional election. Most directly, such election is conditioned on being in Christ. But then being in Christ is itself conditioned on faith, meaning that the divine election of God’s people and the election of individuals for salvation is ultimately conditional on faith in Christ. (Misconceptions, pp. 7, 8, emphasis his)”

http://evangelicalarminians.org/corporate-election-quotes/

Romans 9 addresses ‘The Problem of the Jews’, not individual salvation. Paul already addressed individual salvation in Romans:

“5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God...For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

Notice we obtain access to the grace of God “by faith”, not “by election”.

And please notice that before salvation, we were “enemies” with God. An enemy is not a dead man. A corpse is not an “enemy”. Like the Prodigal Son, we are reconciled to God when we respond with faith: “Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand...”

Faith is the condition of our salvation, not election to a list of names. Calvin cannot overrule God, and tell God He can only save those on a list of names. God has chosen, by His will:

“...to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.”


94 posted on 05/09/2014 8:30:08 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I sooooo miss America!)
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To: Mr Rogers

**No it does not.**

Yes. It does. He singles out the Pharaoh and they reason he hardened his heart. You are right that it is families (covenantal) and but it is individual. Clear as the nose on your face. (I am assuming you have one.)

Tell me something. Surely you know someone that is very close to you that doesn’t believe. Do you pray that they will come to faith?


95 posted on 05/09/2014 9:05:06 AM PDT by Gamecock (The covenant is a stunning blend of law and love. (TK))
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