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To: af_vet_1981; Mr Rogers; metmom; Elsie; Gamecock; .45 Long Colt
Yes, well the scripture speaks of faith that is dead, having no works associated with it. There is the parable of the sower where he clearly explains how this happens and why disciples do not persevere.

The seed is the Gospel itself, which is preached openly to all. But it is effectual only in the sheep of God. Hence why Augustine points out that the gift of perseverance is reserved only for the elect, while others necessarily must fall away:

“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. 1 John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)

“I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)

Here is the verse Augustine is referencing in its full:

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Any who belonged to Christ must necessarily stay, and those who leave are never described as having once been of us, but of leaving us at some point because they were "not of us" to begin with.

142 posted on 05/10/2014 3:55:26 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
The seed is the Gospel itself, which is preached openly to all. But it is effectual only in the sheep of God. Hence why Augustine points out that the gift of perseverance is reserved only for the elect, while others necessarily must fall away: “But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. 1 John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints) “I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)

I see no problem with Augustine's explanation but I would word yours differently like this:

The seed is the Gospel itself, which is preached openly to all. Those in whom it is effectual are Messiah's sheep. Those that persevere are the elect, while others fall away:

145 posted on 05/10/2014 4:04:05 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; af_vet_1981; Mr Rogers; metmom; Elsie; Gamecock; .45 Long Colt
The seed is the Gospel itself, which is preached openly to all.

Exactly my point. Everyone has a chance.

158 posted on 05/11/2014 5:51:29 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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