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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
What do you mean by "Do you think he had no other choice?" There is a difference in physically coming to Jesus, and those who are given by the Father to the Son infallibly. Christ already knew that Judas was not a true believer and was not "of His flock." It is because Judas was not of God that He, ultimately, is God's enemy. Because the world is at war with God, and not because God forces them to be at war with Him.

I meant, "Do you think Judas had no other choice than to betray the LORD ?" Of course, this question also implies "Do you think Judas had an opportunity to be saved and enter into eternal life ?" These questions can be simply answered with "Yes" or "No."

As for the other point about the promise, I understand it as Judas initially came to faith and participated in the ministry of the Apostles. The LORD never cast him out; he chose to leave, chose to betray, and in effect cast himself out.

132 posted on 05/10/2014 1:42:54 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981; Mr Rogers; Gamecock; Elsie; metmom; .45 Long Colt
I meant, "Do you think Judas had no other choice than to betray the LORD ?" Of course, this question also implies "Do you think Judas had an opportunity to be saved and enter into eternal life ?" These questions can be simply answered with "Yes" or "No."

The obvious answer is: Yes, Judas had both choice and opportunity to be saved, as is every one. But the question is not choice and opportunity, but rather willingness. Does man have the willingness to truly place their faith in Christ without the Holy Spirit? The answer is no. The debate in this thread, though I think I've been the only one debating it, as I keep getting accused of denying that "faith" even exists, is whether any whom God reveals Himself to can either refuse or be lost, and whether this effectual "revelation" is universal.

As for the other point about the promise, I understand it as Judas initially came to faith and participated in the ministry of the Apostles.

Judas was always accounted a "thief" and a "devil," and is never referred to as actually being one of Christ's. Those who are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, though we are sinners, can never fall away, nor behave as willful sinners as Judas did.

Joh_12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil."

The choosing of Christ here does not imply their salvation, as the giving of the Father to the Son is separate in His teaching, and is defined always in absolute terms. Either you come to Christ an are risen up, because He will lose "none" of those who are given to Him, or you are not.

136 posted on 05/10/2014 2:35:01 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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