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To: Mr Rogers; Gamecock; metmom; Elsie; .45 Long Colt
It does NOT agree with Calvin, because Calvin rejected God’s knowledge of a man’s willingness to repent as a reason why some are saved and others are not. Do you now agree with Arminius, that those saved are saved because they responded to God’s initiative by believing, and believing, they were given life?

This is a diversion. You already know my position. I need you to answer my question please:

“Just to confirm: You are saying that Christ does not “draw” or “grant” it to all men, because He foreknows they would reject it anyway?"

Does God grant it or "draw" all men, yes or no? This is in response to your statement that He does not, but seems to do so selectively on individuals based on His knowledge of who would accept it if He did. I just want to make sure you're going to stick with this before we continue.

Golly! You mean Paul wasn’t specifically writing about 2014 America? No kidding!

Your folly is that you make light of original sin. You put a later sin as the cause of man's alienation from God, and not our sin nature which we are born with, and you still say nothing to the question of those who never knew Christ.

126 posted on 05/10/2014 10:58:41 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Gamecock; metmom; Elsie; .45 Long Colt

“Does God grant it or “draw” all men, yes or no? This is in response to your statement that He does not, but seems to do so selectively on individuals based on His knowledge of who would accept it if He did.”

False dilemma. Do he draw all equally, without reference to all He knows? No. Does He draw all at least somewhat? Yes. The creation around us screams out the existence and worship worthiness of the Creator. Remember, draw does not equal compel. It does not mean an irresistible drawing that forces obedience.

“Now is the time for this world to be judged; now the ruler of this world will be overthrown. 32 When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me.” - John 12

However, has He abandoned some who have rejected Him? According to Paul & the writer of Hebrews, that answer is yes.

Calvin wanted his systematic theology to be black & white, with neat answers to everything. But in man is complex, the Infinite God is vastly more so, and He has not chosen to give us every detail of His dealings with every human.

“Your folly is that you make light of original sin.”

Citing modern America hardly does that.

“you still say nothing to the question of those who never knew Christ.”

On the contrary, I’ve given my opinion on the subject, while neither you nor Gamecock have given your belief. I have been far more explicit in discussing my beliefs than you have in yours.

Calvin claimed that the vast majority of men are condemned to hell, not because they rejected any revelation of God, but because it pleases God to send them to hell. He claimed those saved are saved, not because they responded to God’s revelation with belief, but without any regard for anything they did. That view makes a liar of God, who said it did depend on repenting and believing, not on some list of names.

I don’t know what your belief is, because you have not been very explicit about yours - only attacking mine.


127 posted on 05/10/2014 12:30:01 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I sooooo miss America!)
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