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To: G Larry

Not exactly correct.

Everyone had a pretty good idea of what the proper canon was. Only heresies inside the Roman Catholic faith group resulted in the confirmation of what was already accepted.


3 posted on 04/20/2014 12:56:09 PM PDT by Gamecock (If the cross is not foolishness to the lost world then we have misrepresented the cross." S.L.)
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To: Gamecock

And some heresies, such as Arius, were proclaimed as such during early church disputes in the 300s. Where one camp won over the other with the Roman Emperor’s backing.

Thus this interesting piece of research and analysis I found in my studies:

State Church Of The Roman Empire, A Summary Chronology

PREFACE (only printed here)

For many years, I wondered what happened to Christianity between the Sermon on the Mount and the Spanish Inquisition. How did the teachings of Jesus become so completely reversed in Christian practice? For the first 300 years, Christianity spread without violence, permeating the world like yeast in bread, by preaching a better God and a Master worth following, and by demonstrating a better way to live both here and hereafter. Then, sometime between AD 300 and 400, everything changed. Suddenly, Christians were the persecutors, instead of the persecuted, and remained so until modern times.

I read everything I could find on this period, but my question was not answered. By searching the Internet, I found and bought a book entitled “The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: The Seven Ecumenical Councils” — and wrestled with ancient theological doctrines until I could hardly see.

Then I remembered that theological doctrines serve political purposes, and went looking to see what the Roman Emperors did. Little by little, the picture of what happened to Christianity became clearer to me, but something was still missing, so I started building my own chronology and inserting into it everything I could find. This paper is the result of that process.

http://www.bswett.com/1998-05Church300.html


12 posted on 04/20/2014 1:36:33 PM PDT by GreyFriar ( Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Gamecock

“already accepted” by WHO???

The “heresies” were overcome by the Catholic Church, NOT “caused” by the Catholic Church!


28 posted on 04/20/2014 3:55:13 PM PDT by G Larry (There's the Beef!)
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To: Gamecock

The Catholic Church came before the NT. The Catholic Church, whether you want to admit it or not, determined what would be put in the Bible and left out of the Bible.


35 posted on 04/20/2014 9:44:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died;we should thank God that such men lived" ~ Patton)
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To: Gamecock
Everyone had a pretty good idea of what the proper canon was.

***********************************

The books of the New Testament were defined around the year, 400 A.D., by the the local Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397, 419). This is the canon that Luther inherited, and which was dogmatically defined by Trent.

Prior to the year 400, the New Testament canon was not clearly defined.

The Muratorian Fragment (so-called because it represents only a portion of the actual second-century document discovered in 1740 by Lodovico Antonio Muratori), is the oldest extant listing of New Testament-era books revered by early Christians. It was written sometime between 155 and 200. Patristic scholars believe the unknown author originally wrote the list in Greek (since the Latin is very poor), but the oldest copy available is an eighth-century Latin manuscript.

Although the Muratorian Fragment is important in studying how the early Church developed the New Testament canon, it doesn't give exactly the same list of books that was later adopted as canonical at the councils of Hippo and Carthage. The Muratorian Fragment is just that: a fragment of a larger list of books which were considered canonical or quasi-canonical during the second century.

The Fragment itself provides us with a good, though incomplete idea of this early canon. Virtually the entire New Testament canon as we know it is represented: the Gospels of Luke and John (preceded by what seems to be an allusion to the Gospel of Mark), Acts, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, Philemon, Titus, 1 & 2 Timothy, Jude, two letters of John (since the fragment simply says "the two ascribed to John," we don't know which two of his three letters are meant), and Revelation.

The unknown author adds other non-canonical books to this line- up: the so-called Pauline Epistles to the Laodiceans and to the Alexandrians (about which the Fragment's author expresses his conviction that they were not authored by Paul), the Wisdom Written by the Friends of Solomon in His Honor, the Apocalypse of Peter, The Shepherd (written by Hermas). The Fragment's list is cut short abruptly with a final, enigmatic phrase which may indicate that the author had gone on to include still other non-inspired writings: "Those also who wrote the new book of psalms for Marcion, together with Basilides, the founder of the Asian Cataphrygians."

As you can see, although the Muratorian Fragment lists most of the New Testament books, it's missing a few (e.g. Matthew, James, 3 John), and it adds several works which are not inspired.

These facts demonstrate that, although the Fragment came close, it did not represent the actual canon of inspired Scripture. Further, there is no internal evidence in the document that it sought to represent any kind of official canon that was regarded by the Church as binding.

In the first four centuries of the Church many books, such as the seven letters of Ignatius, the Letter of Clement [the fourth pope] to the Corinthians, the Didache, and The Shepherd were revered by many Christians as inspired but were later shown to be non-inspired.

Was the canon of Scripture determined before the Church councils that decided it?

***********************************

Sola Scriptura, while un-Biblical, was also impractical, at least until the advent of the printing press. No one could afford a complete Bible (handwritten on scrolls). Nor could a significant number even be manufactured to make the doctrine practical in any meaningful sense.

***********************************

Since few books of any kind existed, most people were illiterate, for more than a millenium.

***********************************

TODAY, 800 MILLION ADULTS ARE ILLITERATE.

How does Sola Scriptura work for them?

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Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word.

Scripture opposes Sola Scriptura

***********************************

Jesus cites the Church as the authority in settling disputes among believers:

If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Mat. 18:17
***********************************

The Church in Scripture

56 posted on 04/21/2014 6:29:24 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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