Thanks roamer..
I am still learning stuff and stumbling my way on this journey ...
this will be a long one. sorry in advance..
I have no problem trying to aid in someone’s consideration. Or trying to defend why I do what I do..
the timing of easter and the feasts is an appropriate time..
And I have no book to sell.. no website to refer people to. No church or pastor to say ‘go see what they are doing’.. this isn’t a denominational issue or a doctrine to be hammered out.. it is either there and biblical or it isn’t.
I for one have no physical church home- I observe His calendar privately.
I do practice it as a flaud gentile who believes fully in the finished work of our Messiah..
I do feel I am being blessed for that obedience, even though I may screw it up while trying to understand such a foreign concept. (When is the new moon, where can it be seen, does it have to be Israel- I finally got my answer this month and I was all over the map before this)
I kept asking and seeking and knocking and He let me know - andthat allowed me to choose one path over the other..
So, in the spirit of helping your consideration and maybe to answer questions that you may have, here I go.
I have no doubt that God’s appointed times are only determined correctly if they are determined by the sun, moon and stars..that’s why they are there.. for signs to us...
I came to understand those new moons, sabbaths and feasts are His appointed times He gave to Israel, so Israel could properly worship Him.. (without a concordance, I would not be able to see the tie ins)
And the signs in the sky are not to be used independently ...
- not just the sun, or just the moon or just the stars..but all together.
Underlying a lot of this for me has to do with His seal(name,title, and governance territory) and where He placed it in His commandment- the sabbath, an appointed time He gave for us to rest and to worship Him.
I think there is a reason for that and I have been trying to see in scripture if there is a specific sabbath day and not a ‘everybody do their own thing’ hodge podge..
Israel was taught this calendar..and for whatever reason, it was lost/abandoned. maybe because of threat of persecution...
He gave us, through Israel and her prophets, the written oracles, prophecy for all ages and, of course, Our messiah..
I believe that the calendar template I am observing of counting from the new moon day is in the written oracles(Torah) , discussed by the prophets, and is even reflected in the living oracles, our Messiah’s life, too.
Now, scripture doesn’t come out and say thou shall have your sabbaths on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th days of each of His months, it is subtle.
but one of those (15th) in scripture isnt subtle and is a clear picture of a sabbath and holy convocation for at least the 1st and 7th months already- and a big reference point to start with..
the others are brought about by counting from that 15th..
We know that any discussion of days 8-31 is talking about a monthly numbered day and not a weekly day..
But days 1-7 can mean different things in scripture and this can trip us up.
7th day could mean the seventh day sabbath, the seventh day of the month or a count of days or period of time, like for a battle- the seven day battle of Jericho.
I use Jericho because it is one that is evidence that really put His calendar in sharp contrast to the worlds timekeeping (I did go to another source outside of the bible for this verification-the book of jasher)
Now, the written oracles..
We know the 15th day on the 1st and 7th months are Sabbaths and holy convocations.
Could I find any other days in scripture called a Sabbath?
Yup, exodus 16:23 (before the ten commandments in exodus 20)..
In the 2nd month after the original passover, Israel came to the wilderness of sin ( exodus 16) . Scripture says it was the 15th day of the second month specifically.
The whole congregation ‘murmured’ against moses and Aaron. (Sounded to me they were not traveling that day, just all of them sitting around complaining on the 15th)
This is when our heavenly Father instituted the quail and manna and the instructions of the six day gathering- this by scripture timing that I can see is still the 15th day)
Then scripture says that evening (after the 15th day), quail came and the next morning, manna showed up.. so by the end of the next day, the 16th day, they had quail and manna in their bellies..
If my premise is the 15th day is a sabbath, Heavenly Father ‘waiting’ until the evening after the 15th was to do work and provide the quail (Exodus 16:13), is good evidence.
They were commanded to work six days and gather the manna.
16th day to the 21st day is 6 days.
Scripture then says that on that sixth day (21st by counting) in exodus 16:23 that ‘tomorrow’ is the sabbath to God.
The next morning, was the sabbath (exodus 16:25).. now it doesn’t say the 22nd.. we just counted it from the reference point we were given in exodus 16:1 (15th)
With this scripture, before we had the 15th day in the 1st or 7th month as a sabbath and holy convocation in Leviticus, Moses and Israel experienced their first ‘sabbath’ on the 22nd day in the second month after the original passover..(exodus 16:25)
By logic, if the 22nd day was a sabbath before Leviticus, seven days later, the 29th, would be another ‘sabbath’ after six days of work of collecting manna.
In exodus 19:1 there is another point reference of a day..
Scripture says it was now the 3rd month after they left Egypt, the Same Day (15th) they came to Sinai.
And I think although there is no reference to Sabbaths here, it is in this timing of the giving of the law where we also see the feasts of shavut and Pentecost in scripture.
Counting from the correct reference points is crucial..
The 15th day was a reference point for the exodus, the second month after exodus and now we see the third month after exodus.
The 15th references are no accident and the central reference point I used.
I haven’t gone further to see if there is a reference of the 15th day in the 4th month after exodus but it would not surprise me..
The 14th and 15th days, if one counts from a new moon (like ezekiel 46 says) are days that would hold really full moons..
If one had to travel by night with no flashlights, a full moon is an ideal alternate.
I don’t think it was an accident Israel was traveling by the fullest moons out of Egypt.
Some think a full moon should begin a month. That would mean Israel traveled in an invisible dark moon period- that is not logical.
We eventually get into leviticus when God gives Moses and Israel their calendar in detail, using the feasts as the reference points.
We know that He said the 15th and the 22nd days are Sabbaths and holy convocations in the feasts months of the 1st and 7th. (Those are not in dispute I hope)
But above, we saw Exodus actually confirms that the 22nd day was also a sabbath in the 2nd month (by counting from the 15th day reference point given to us)..
And then by continuing the counting logic, we saw the 29th day of the 2nd month of the year is also a sabbath.
if it works for 2nd month before the law was given, why not the 1st and 7th months and every month?
The 8th is the toughest to find. But by counting backwards from our reference point of the 15th day that we detailed in the first passover and the following months , 15 minus 7 days is 8..
I stated earlier the Torah, prophets and messiah all pointed to a timekeeping, sometimes under the surface.
The prophets spoke of times and laws that would try to be changed.(it happened)
And the Prophet Ezekiel was given specific template of a calendar for the temple -new moon day, six work days and sabbath day..
If we just read scripture like it’s a daily assignment (guilty), we never ‘see’ what God may be telling us.. or if we think it is just history and not applicable to us, it could be a big eye opener.
And as my studies have progressed, I find literal and not just spiritual clues in the new testament that points us to being able to see God’s calendar in Messiah’s life.
We know all scripture points to Him..
I was trying to go through the laws to see what I could maybe confirm as what occurred our Messiah..
Some are firm and some are only theories of mine..
For one, I find it interesting a circumcision occurs on the 8th Day according to law.
One time Our messiah even mentions circumcision and specifically circumcision on a sabbath..
When I read revelation, and the description of the virgin birth in the sky, it speaks of the virgo constellation.
The moon when the sun is clothing ‘her’ and under her feet is a time of a new moon from my elementary understanding of the stars..
It is a day after ‘the conjunction’ of the moon (hidden moon) when no light of the moon can be seen..
We cant see a hidden moon so obviously the vision says a moon was senw under her feet.
Virgo is the sixth constellation in the order( starting from Aries- the Ram- there is more to this but not today)
If I can see that scripture gives me a clue to Him being born in the 6th month (not during the 7th or those feasts like so many believe), how could he be born at an appointed time?
a new moon is an appointed time in scripture. It isn’t a sabbath, or a work day.. more like our Thanksgiving (without the stores being open) once a month. But it is appointed.
Well, could I square tabernacled with us and what else in His life may be hidden in scripture that may confirm God’s timekeeping?
Our messiah, according to law, would then have been circumcised as a little boy on the 8th day after His birth...
the 8th day from a new moon in ezekiel is a Sabbath Day, even if we start with the 15th and counted back..
So being born on a new moon was an appointed time. if I follow that, He was circumsized on the 8th day after, also an appointed day- the Sabbath..
8 days old and our Messiah has hit two appointed times already!
The next is trying to see Him in the 15th- that one is easy!
The 15th day of the first month is the one rock solid reference point that allows for all the counting to work. It is a day referenced by number in exodus..
And so, trying to find important events for our Messiah, we have the greatest on the 15th day of the first month, He obeyed His Heavenly Father, even in death, and ‘rested’ in the tomb..
The 22nd..
We know He attended the feast of tabernacles and stood up on the last great day of the feast, the 22nd day according to the count from the 15th sabbath, and gave His cry for those who thirst to come after Him..
The 22nd day was a holy convocation and no servile work was done..
I am trying to see if the 29th sabbath day had any clues in scripture for messiah and cant find it yet..(but it may not be necessary!
Going back, to His birth-
If our messiah was in fact born on the 6th month at the new moon, and circumcised on the 8th day of the month (the sabbath on God’s calendar), the next stuff was really mind blowing!
It meant, according to law, Miriam (Mary) was unclean for 40 days.
There would be seven days and then another 33 days of purification (for a boy birth) in scripture.
40 days later, Messiah and every boy was to be dedicated in the Temple.
.
40 days after the new moon of the 6th moon just happens to be the 10th day of the 7th month- Day of Atonement!
So even though He wasn’t born on Tabernacles with my theory/ understanding:
1.He was born on a new moon, an appointed time for Israel in scripture
2. He was circumcised on the 8th day of the month, which with God’s calendar is the first weekly sabbath - an appointed day.
3. He was dedicated to the temple 40 days after His mother’s purification. That day if we count it out is the Day of Atonement- certainly an appointed day.
4. He was baptized on his 30th birthday (new moon day) and then spent 40 days and 40 nights fasting- which then concludes with the day of atonement.. (my theory- but it makes the 40 days/nights after his baptism tie both to His birth and atonement- Jews do have a 40 days of awe)
5. He rested in the tomb on the 15th day, a high sabbath- even in death he observed the sabbath..an appointed time certainly..
Could this maybe explain what the 10th day of the 7th month was meant to shadow- that a little 40 day old baby messiah was going to be dedicated in the temple on that day. How many Jews wonder why the 10th? Or why the 8th for circumcision?
Scripture does give us a clue with Our Messiah’s dedication- like a priestess praying day and night, when he was dedicated. (Only temple was open day and night was atonement)
Can I prove it? Nope. Can I see it in scripture ? Yup. We can only prove the 15th day exclusively and can see the shadows for the others..
I think they are intriguing and could explain some old testament rules and laws that don’t make sense to us or Israel, but Israel obeyed anyway.
And my learning continues..
Is it easier to say every month in God’s calendar perfectly lines up each month with scripture with no suspension rules, no postponements of feasts because the Sabbaths and the feasts and the new moons are always the same appointed times, each month?
Or is it easier to calculate suspension rules and postponements because the appointed feast days will interfere with man’s sabbath day?
I am passionate about this because I think His appointed times are important and were given to Israel to tell the rest of us what is proper worship.. and what isn’t..
I am struggling with this because as I stated earlier the seal of God is in the sabbath commandment..
And if I believe that Satan counterfeits, why would the calendar be any different?
If God has a spritiual seal and He placed it in the sabbath commandment, where would Satan’s spiritual mark be as a counterfeiter- any other day?
Are we that deceived ?
After understanding as best I can His calendar principles in scripture, I don’t read scripture as a daily ‘to do’ list anymore..
I practice His calendar as best I can,’observing what I think scripture gives us..
And two years ago, I would have thought ‘I’ was nuts for what I see now..
It is so counter culture and so against what the world does... and I don’t think it’a a new thing or a fad and I really would be shocked to see churches and people en masse observing it..
God’s calendar isn’t for CEOs of big international corporations, or politicians, or wall street bankers with their work days, or celebrities and their movie shooting schedules, or professional athletes, or pastors/preachers/priests/ tied into the liturgical calendars or big churches, or students going to public, private or parochial schools from kindergarten to college.. His calendar is also a strain on people without flexible work schedules or people who dont have lots of vacation or paid time off to spend on taking ‘business days off’ if a sabbath falls on a Tuesday, etc.
People who could observe His calendar?
The self employed, the unemployed, the retired, the homeless (not joking), homeschoolers, people with flexible work schedules..pastors/preachers not tied to a liturgical calendar or big church hierarchy.
These are not exhaustive lists but we could find ourselves in one of those two at points in our lives.
All of us, if this calendar gets revealed to individuals like it did me, have choices( I didn’t search it out- I was trying to make sense of three days and three nights!)..
Again I would be shocked to hear of a congregation throwing away the worlds timekeeping and observing what I believe is in scripture, albeit under the surface.. there are challenges and hardships and maybe even persecutions if one in f that first or even the second list, could face for observing His calendar.
And I understand people saying ‘hogwash’ to all of it.. ‘we are saved by grace anyways now and He knows my heart’-
It is a logical answer to anything we see in scripture that could alter our lives and alter our worship of Him. That is why there already are so many denominations!
He does give us freedom and liberty that the world cannot..and I think there is evidence He gives us timekeeping the world cannot.
I hope people will look., consider.. poke holes.say hogwash. . Say whatever.
Asking, seeking and knocking and proving, and defending what we believe in, can only help us grow in our own faith walks or help us correct errors that we believe..
Roamer, hope you haven’t fallen asleep reading this!
Our finite minds trying to explain our infinite Heavenly Father’s ways and thoughts is sometimes an exercise in futility!
And I may be absolutely off my rocker and even doing it completely wrong!
His mercy and grace, and our need for it, is an eternal truth I hope everyone can agree on..
Me and my works are filthy rags and only the finished work of my Messiah is accepted as the worthy substitute.
I am forgiven. And now, I am just trying to go and sin no more and be as salty and bright as I can be for Him.
May He bless you more than He has me...
Apologies again for the long post...
Roamer,
One goof I did on the 22nd day sabbath with relation to feast of tabernacles description after the reading this back through today-
I didn’t elaborate on the 22nd like I thought I had.
The 21st is the last day of the feasts and on the last day of tabernales, Messiah stood up and gave His cry
It should have said 21 in my poat, not the 22nd.
Sorry if I screwed you up.
7 days of the feast, then the next day(22nd), if that portion of scripture is chronological, should have mention of sabbath.
And I believe it does.
15th day- sabbath, 1st day of tabernacles-messiah waits to join them.
Middle of feast He arrives.
21st day - last day of feast - His cry for those who thirst...
22nd day-’sabbath’- He heals the blind man ‘on the sabbath’ with His clay.
Some of this sequence is in John 9 certainly because I recall John 9:3 being the verse ‘work of God is made manifest in him’ and later the ‘I was blind, but now I see’...
Sorry again!
And I also know what it is like to worship and practice alone - The road less traveled comes with loneliness and persecution. It is hard to do at all, and extremely hard to sustain.
But you and I are not that far off - As it concerns the moedim, we agree already - Since they are moon-based, they would not change in your way or mine.
It is the resetting of the week/day that is in contention - And in that, I remain in disagreement. It is my nature to look not at the proofs, but rather at the errata, as a thousand proofs are destroyed by a single error - What cannot be, cannot be.
Off-hand, if you are correct, then you are left with the same problem at Passover as the Catlicks - Three days and three nights cannot be present from Preparation Day to First Fruits, because the Passover feast and the first day of Unleavened Bread would occur coexistent with the Full Moon Sabbath of the 15th. Ergo a 6th day (Friday) crucifixion, a Sabbath rest (Saturday), and a resurrection some time before the (Sunday) morning sacrifice. That is necessarily a serious problem, as the primary proof by which Yeshua declares he is Messiah must be ignored.
And incidentally, my initial remarks wrt the High Priest's Temple functions could not happen accordingly either (I was wrong in that - the shadow-picture would be lost).
Also, I am loathe to change the days - ALL of the calendars are unsure... All have been corrupted. But the days (and therefore the weeks) remain. If they cannot be counted, then ALL proofs based upon history are brought into question. Now, I know the days, the physical evenings and mornings are still there, But A LOT of things can be counted by counting Sabbaths (weeks), which also coincide with Jubilees (which are an expansion of 'weeks' in calculating years) - I am not sure how your approach effects those things (Daniel's prophecy of weeks comes to mind) - It is a caution.
But, I cannot make that a deal-killer, because only truth is truth, as it turns out - And it does make for an interesting exercise, and something I will retain for comparative studies. As I said, I am interested in it because it allows one to determine Sabbath days at any given time. I think that YHWH would have a way to make that evident.
And it MATTERS. I live in Montana, and I have had more than one occasion wherein I was in the backwoods for an extended period, and I can tell you that one can very easily forget which day it is once one is unplugged for an extended time. I can liken that to end-times events - If SHTF, I know that I can survive by walking off into the forest, for any amount of time - But the keeping of time will be very problematic.