Still wriggling?
If you 'know' them well; perhaps you can get THEM to verify THEIR statements and not try to get US to do it!
You 'trust' them; but do not appear to 'trust' your FR Protestant buddies.
hi dan...
I am not trying to make a statement on the relative merits of tradition and scripture versus sola scriptura, nope.
As I mentioned several times I have been told by protestants I know well and trust who have said that there is more scripture in the Catholic Mass than in a protestant church service.
at first I was shocked and thought that couldn’t be true.
However, I have since be told “that yes, ‘sadly’ there is more Scripture in a Catholic mass than in their own church”.
When this young very faithful protestant said that I was truly amazed. He opined it was the watering down of protestantism - which is the same thing we discuss about the watering down of Catholicism.
So when I mentioned what I had been told several times and confirmed by a fellow who I trust explicitly I was surprised by the vitriol I received when I mentioned that on the forum.
I think there may be a disconnect between what a protestant thinks his church is and does; just like the disconnect between what a Catholic thinks his church is and does.
My challenge is simple I am challenging specifically the protestants who raspberry my even mentioning this topic - by taking ONE specific tiny insignificant Catholic Church in the middle of nowhere and comparing it with ANY protestant Church anywhere in the US.
In other words I am bending over backwards to make this contest fair and impartial for the protestants.
This will not be a survey, critique or contrast of Catholic scripture versus protestant scripture it is simply to find out who has the most scripture in their Sunday service or mass.
The unspoken thing here on the forum is the number of protestants who do not attend any formal church but church themselves at home. I included them by extending this to a family member or relative who is a Church going protestant.
While you may not agree I hope you can clearly see my intentions. If it sounds to you like I am manipulating this please be specific in your objection so it can be dealt with.
PS my dad told me when I was very young never reject a gift. While I have not heard directly from Jim I have addressed these to him, so if he had objections I assume I would have heard about it in spades. Frankly, I think he could run contests something like these to help raise funds and awareness.
For the Greater Glory of God
I am wondering, do you know that satan (the father of lies) is going to end up dead?
at first I was shocked and thought that couldn’t be true.
But did you go check it out yourself or just continue to rely on hearsay?
Still wriggling?
If you 'know' them well; perhaps you can get THEM to verify THEIR statements and not try to get US to do it!
You 'trust' them; but do not appear to 'trust' your FR Protestant buddies.
Of course that couldn’t or could be true, as if a person said that, and which you did not provide an example of, then one is making such a broad statement that it defies meaningful determination due to the vast variability, esp. among non-liturgical churches.
Yet the practice among many is to expound upon a few in a long sermon.
If you really want to show RCs are being exposed to as much or more Scripture in its totality than Prots, then the stats of formal studies on Bible reading are what carry weight. As said, Catholics come in about last in Bible reading, and a RC source states that "The average Catholic does not even get to Mass weekly, less alone daily as would be needed to get just 12.7% of the Bible over the two year reading cycle." (http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm)
My challenge is simple I am challenging specifically the protestants who raspberry my even mentioning this topic - by taking ONE specific tiny insignificant Catholic Church in the middle of nowhere and comparing it with ANY protestant Church anywhere in the US.
ONE specific tiny insignificant Catholic Church is just as significant as a mass in the Vatican as the mass is standardized, though with basic types. The only difference is that your priest, which is not even what a NT pastor is called, may himself preach more like an evangelical in using more Scripture than the typical RC cleric, and maybe longer than the typical 10 minute sermon. In which case it fails to prove the typical RC mass uses more Scripture than a typical Prot service.
And which itself proves nothing, as no doubt liberal Prot services use less Scripture, but the persons contending against Rome do not use liberal Prot churches as a standard, as they are usually evangelical types.
Moreover, as expressed, the mere use of Scripture does not equate to being taught much Scripture. You RC mass repeats some of the same texts weekly, while only using maybe 17 other verses as part of a cycle.
This will not be a survey, critique or contrast of Catholic scripture versus protestant scripture it is simply to find out who has the most scripture in their Sunday service or mass.
As expressed, that commits the fallacy of grouping all non-Catholic churches as Protestant, and liberal ones as being the same as evangelical types.
While you may not agree I hope you can clearly see my intentions. If it sounds to you like I am manipulating this please be specific in your objection so it can be dealt with.
As expressed, the foundational premise of grouping all non-Catholic churches as Protestant, and comparing a standardized liturgy of one church, and in which redundant use of Scripture qualifies, to any protestant Church anywhere in the US, appears contrived and proves nothing, as one protestant service can use just a few texts and another can go thru multitudes of texts in a typical 45 min. evangcal message.
I can take you to a Fund. Baptist church where i was years ago and the pastor when thru approx 60 Scripture references on average, as i remember counting them. I doubt he has changed much. He basically preached the Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge by Torrey, which is an example of the use of Scripture in classic evangelical study.
PS my dad told me when I was very young never reject a gift. While I have not heard directly from Jim I have addressed these to him, so if he had objections I assume I would have heard about it in spades. Frankly, I think he could run contests something like these to help raise funds and awareness.
Contests can be fine, and whether evangelicals are more Bible literate and conservative than RCs would be more relevant, but before imposing on Jim's time to listen to dozens of sermons to determine a winner in a short time, you should have FReeped him about this proposal first.