Sorry; what I meant to write was 'I changed "you" to "them" to suit the grammar'. Which remains all there is to it.
Whether those persons should be prayed to is a matter not contemplated (or even hinted at) in that portion of text, for it is as written there "God working in you His good pleasure" which yes, can be seen as a [them] which God was working within -- but not as you there employed it.
Alleluia. So you understand that when Paul writes to the Philippians and writes "them", and I cite Paul making the reference to the same Philippians and am grammatically bound to change the reference in the citation from "you" to "them", this does not alter the meaning? So why was all the wringing of hands over my quoting scripture while talking to you?
You point is that Paul is not urging anyone to pray to the Philippians in that passage. True. Paul does however describe them as righteous people, and in fact as "saints" (Phil. 1:1) and he does say that God is working in them. "Them". "Them"! Feel better? What I said, however, is that if I were to know a saint from Philippi and if I were to pray to him or her, I would be by that act honoring and giving glory to God Who made that man a saint; in short, as one prays to a saint he worships God by the very act of prayer.
in that sentence which you wrote; God is the one who is being "venerated", rather than a saint being "venerated"
For the reader: my sentence in question is "a prayer to any saint venerates God who made His saints"; it appears in my post 1000.
Yes, that was written in haste. Should be:
a prayer to any saint worships God who made His saints
Now, that is not all it does. A prayer venerates a saint (for example, seeks his support, advice or intercession, or simply praises him) and it worships God because St,. Paul once said to a group of saints: "it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will" (Phil. 2:13).
When speaking of this "venerating" of those perceived to be saints, you said
Being there is not any sense of recommendation to pray to "saints" found in that chapter (or any other chapter, for that matter) your own use of the word because while referring to that particular passage, must obviously import from elsewhere the assumption that veneration and/or prayer to saints is equal to (or much as?) worshiping God, while also likening to this "veneration" spoken of to God himself working within, in persons (those whom Paul was addressing) "... both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will".
Again, pick some other source or chapter of Paul's writings, or from the Gospels, if you wish to establish that praying to saints is as God working within a person.
But I suggest the impossible, for though there was some amount of "veneration of saints" from quite early on in the history of the church, to go from simpler veneration which was more as form of remembrance of those persons, as can be found from fairly early on in church tradition, to then go far beyond that to a "seek[ing]... support, advice or intercession" directly from them, rather than from God more directly --- as I wrote to you -- confuses the issue as it confuses identities.
The saints are not God, nor is there recommendation (in scripture) for any to pray to any such persons similar to how one is instructed to pray to God.
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
We see near the end of the above quoted from chapter, recommendation that the saints (those then living) be "saluted", but not to be considered later to be as God, or like unto being God in having some continuing roles of having direct intercourse (conversation) with us from the heavenlies.
Teachings or direction for doing so ---this blending of veneration of saints likened or made equal to worshiping God, even to degree of asking directly for advice (and/or guidance) from them cannot be found in scripture, particularly Philippians chapter 2.
In Paul's epistles to the Philippians, it is not ourselves --- by our own veneration prayers to saints (which Paul wrote not of) which he [Paul] was speaking of when he wrote of God working within them [those whom he was writing to]..
Your use of the word because in your own explanation of justification for citing Philippians 2:13 finds no foundation there, and dangerously confuses the issues.
Look elsewhere for support for your own confusions.