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Locked on 04/14/2014 6:31:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
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Posted on 04/05/2014 5:57:23 AM PDT by Gamecock
Oh??
The check probably hasn't cleared yet...
No.
This thread is titled Pay No Attention to That Man Behind the Curtain! Catholic History and the Emerald City Protocol
I'm trying so hard to do that...
Illinois
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Indiana
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You seem to 'take' a lot of stuff with no basis in fact.
Also; 'taking' what another person 'thinks' is MINDREADING.
You may wait to respond when you have access to a real computer and keyboard. I realize that some of us on FR have jobs and must do them; while others of us just sit in mom’s basement and spout.
Of course that couldn’t or could be true, as if a person said that, and which you did not provide an example of, then one is making such a broad statement that it defies meaningful determination due to the vast variability, esp. among non-liturgical churches.
Yet the practice among many is to expound upon a few in a long sermon.
If you really want to show RCs are being exposed to as much or more Scripture in its totality than Prots, then the stats of formal studies on Bible reading are what carry weight. As said, Catholics come in about last in Bible reading, and a RC source states that "The average Catholic does not even get to Mass weekly, less alone daily as would be needed to get just 12.7% of the Bible over the two year reading cycle." (http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm)
My challenge is simple I am challenging specifically the protestants who raspberry my even mentioning this topic - by taking ONE specific tiny insignificant Catholic Church in the middle of nowhere and comparing it with ANY protestant Church anywhere in the US.
ONE specific tiny insignificant Catholic Church is just as significant as a mass in the Vatican as the mass is standardized, though with basic types. The only difference is that your priest, which is not even what a NT pastor is called, may himself preach more like an evangelical in using more Scripture than the typical RC cleric, and maybe longer than the typical 10 minute sermon. In which case it fails to prove the typical RC mass uses more Scripture than a typical Prot service.
And which itself proves nothing, as no doubt liberal Prot services use less Scripture, but the persons contending against Rome do not use liberal Prot churches as a standard, as they are usually evangelical types.
Moreover, as expressed, the mere use of Scripture does not equate to being taught much Scripture. You RC mass repeats some of the same texts weekly, while only using maybe 17 other verses as part of a cycle.
This will not be a survey, critique or contrast of Catholic scripture versus protestant scripture it is simply to find out who has the most scripture in their Sunday service or mass.
As expressed, that commits the fallacy of grouping all non-Catholic churches as Protestant, and liberal ones as being the same as evangelical types.
While you may not agree I hope you can clearly see my intentions. If it sounds to you like I am manipulating this please be specific in your objection so it can be dealt with.
As expressed, the foundational premise of grouping all non-Catholic churches as Protestant, and comparing a standardized liturgy of one church, and in which redundant use of Scripture qualifies, to any protestant Church anywhere in the US, appears contrived and proves nothing, as one protestant service can use just a few texts and another can go thru multitudes of texts in a typical 45 min. evangcal message.
I can take you to a Fund. Baptist church where i was years ago and the pastor when thru approx 60 Scripture references on average, as i remember counting them. I doubt he has changed much. He basically preached the Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge by Torrey, which is an example of the use of Scripture in classic evangelical study.
PS my dad told me when I was very young never reject a gift. While I have not heard directly from Jim I have addressed these to him, so if he had objections I assume I would have heard about it in spades. Frankly, I think he could run contests something like these to help raise funds and awareness.
Contests can be fine, and whether evangelicals are more Bible literate and conservative than RCs would be more relevant, but before imposing on Jim's time to listen to dozens of sermons to determine a winner in a short time, you should have FReeped him about this proposal first.
No.
OK so you do think a Catholic Mass has more Scripture than a protestant service - now we are getting somewhere.
AMDG
There is no doubt that today's Catholics are much more Bible-literate than their ancestors. However, they are also much more liberal. Catholic Biblicism is thoroughly liberal and higher critical, having swallowed every lie of liberal Protestantism (ironically, in an attempt to distinguish themselves from Fundamentalist Protestants as well as to discredit the Bible as a religious guide).
What good does exposure to scripture do if one doesn't believe it? There are atheist higher critics who could run circles around almost any religious person (I should know; I was in a class taught by one), but what good does it do them? One could have a photographic memory and have the entire Bible imprinted on one's mind and still believe it's primitive nonsense (which is essentially what Catholics believe).
It's better to not read the Bible but to implicitly believe it than to read it and not believe it. The old, Biblically illiterate Catholics were infinitely preferable to today's "Biblically literate" ones.
I guess anonymous donations are not posted to the totals..
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I didn’t think you would be cynical... I guess I had you figured wrong.
Ad Majoram Dei Glorima
AMDG
do you really sit in moms basement and ‘spout’??
go tot get some work done, have a great day and please donate to Jim, whether you are part of the contest or not.
AMDG
here is no doubt that today’s Catholics are much more Bible-literate than their ancestors. However, they are also much more liberal.
As a Catholic I would change your sentence a little to say the Catholics who are more bible literate are more conservative, although some of the other Catholic population may be trending liberal.
gotta go
AMDG
Hearsay is repeating what someone else said with no means of verification.
fourth, I am intimately familiar with the Catholic Mass and know exactly what is said and transpires in the Mass,
Wonderful. You'll have no difficulty in posting this for comparison purposes then, I take it?
Keep that definition in mind - I'm going to refer to it later in this post.
I am intimately familiar with the Catholic Mass and know exactly what is said and transpires in the Mass
Good for you. Can you prove to the rest of us, in a verifiable way, what was actually spoken in the mass you attend? Please don't give us the script of what should have been said. Please provide a verifiable transcript of what was actually said. That's what you're expecting Protestants to provide. Will you be providing it yourself?
remember I want Jim to compare what happens in ONE particular Catholic Mass in our little corner of nowhere to ANY protestant service anywhere in the US.
Has Jim agreed to judge this little contest of yours? Will Protestants get to count each time that the word "amen" is spoken as a Scripture citation? If Jim's going to judge this contest, have you submitted your own transcript of the actual mass conducted at your parish to him yet? Right now, all we have is your unverified word that there's any scripture used in the mass at your local parish. As you yourself defined rules in post #844, it can 't be trusted if it can't be verified. By the definition you yourself provided in post #876 and reproduced at the top of this post, your challenge is based entirely on HEARSAY until you can prove your own mass contained any scripture.
FWIW, I'm not pinging Jim Robinson because I happen to respect the man's attention and time. I think that this contest would be a colossal waste of his time, and I hope you didn't donate $250 to gain his attention in this little spitting contest. Either you changed your mind about Free Republic's moderation and mission in the last week, or IMO you're trying to bribe someone into applying the band-aid to your butt-hurt.
But let's assume for the moment that you are correct. Let us pretend that you've submitted your own verified transcript to Jim, we've submitted our own verified transcripts, Jim has read them all, and Jim has publicly judged that your "little Catholic Church in the middle of absolutely nowhere" conducts a mass with "more Scripture" than all of our Protestant worship services. Did all of that scripture lead your Sunday-mass-attending Catholics to vote for conservative causes and for conservative candidates in far greater numbers than our Sunday-worship-attending Protestants already vote for? How about a contest to see whose religious tradition supports a constitutional representative republic in the USA better, and can bring this country back from socialism faster?
Now there's a contest that we all could benefit from, and one that compliments Free Republic's core mission.
Alex, your post is well stated, but I would add just one more element:
Unless what scripture that may be presented in a service is understood, believed, and practiced, it is still just so much hot air floating up into the upper atmosphere.
I see few comments in this forum that give me confidence that much of the scriptures is understood at all.
.
You’ll have no difficulty in posting this for comparison purposes then, I take it?
I wouldn’t have any difficulty except I’m working and have already posted one link on this thread.
I am not going to do your work for you - ‘Google is your friend’ until they record your conversions through your computer mic.
Present your service to Jim and we will present our Mass.
He can judge - I trust him, don’t you?
AMDG
AlexM...
“How about a contest to see whose religious tradition supports a constitutional representative republic in the USA better, and can bring this country back from socialism faster?”
Hows about you donate $250 to FR and start another contest to answer that.
Till then my ante is in, yours???
AMDG
You’re really relying entirely too much upon the involvement of an individual who is not even present on the thread and perhaps not even aware of the obligation you’ve thrust upon him.
Care to verify this?
How does that donation make you feel?
It makes me feel great.
feelings are for liberals
as a conservative I’d rather think..
For the Greater Glory of God
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