Posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:21 AM PDT by xzins
Bible prophecy related to the end times mentions many nations, including Libya, Iran, Iraq Ethiopia, and possibly even China and Russia, but not the United States of America. In an article on his blog, Pastor Greg Laurie gives three plausible reasons for the nation's exclusion.
"Where is the United States? Why are we not in the last-days scenario?" asks Laurie, pastor of Harvest Church in Riverside, Calif.
One reason why the United States is not mentioned in Scripture is perhaps because the nation "might be devastated by a nuclear war," the pastor writes. "It is a horrible scenario and one that none of us would want to see, but we cannot rule it out as a possibility."
The threat remains despite the dissolution of the former Soviet Union, Laurie argues. "It could indeed be a rogue terrorist nation with nuclear capabilities, or even a terrorist group that could set off the dominoes falling onto each other. I hope this isn't the case, but we cannot rule it out."
Laurie is for a strong military for that reason. "We need to take seriously any foreign threats. But having said that, what about an internal collapse?"
A second possible reason could be that the U.S. might decline as a world power, Laurie says, quoting Proverbs 14:34, which reads, "Godliness makes a nation great, but sin is a disgrace to any people."
"As our country becomes more and more secular, systematically eliminating God and the Bible from our education system, courts, and the arts, we will begin to reap the inevitable results of sin. We will begin to rot from the inside," the pastor warns. "I think to some degree, we already have [seen that happen] as we have seen the breakdown of the family, rampant crime and so many other problems that have come from disobeying God."
Laurie points out that what once was freedom of religion seems to have now become freedom from religion. "We have succeeded in getting God out of our schools, out of our sporting events, out of our public places and out of our workplaces."
The nation needs to remember that the freedom we enjoy is built on the foundation of absolute truth, he says. "And when you remove that foundation, this freedom actually can turn into anarchy."
A third possibility could be that the U.S. will witness a revival, "which I find a lot more hopeful," Laurie goes on to say. "That is not to say a revival would eliminate us as a world power. But if our nation had a revival, it would affect us. Think about this. Let's say, for example, that one-fourth of all Americans are believers. This would mean that we have approximately 78 million true believers in our country today… When the Rapture of the church takes place, don't you think there would be an impact on the United States…?"
Laurie said we need to, therefore, pray for revival in our country today. "When I say that our nation needs God, I don't mean that we need whatever god everyone happens to believe in," he clarifies. "The only hope for America is when we turn back to the true and living God – the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who gave us the Bible as the revelation of who he is, the God who loved us so much that he sent his own son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross in our place."
No, I’m sorry. I thought you were the same poster who made the comment about SDA and where America is heading. I should have checked.
Much violence has been done to the word "trial" in Revelation 3:10. It actually means temptation, and is used in the same context as any other use of the word "temptation" in the New Testament. Jesus seemed to be praising them for resisting temptation:
"I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev 3:8-10 KJV)
I believe, from that context, that the church was able to resist attempts to Judaize it; and Jesus was telling them they would be tempted no more.
To see one use of the word "tribulation" in the Revelation refer to the previous chapter, in Revelation 2:9-10:
"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Rev 2:9-10 KJV)
It appears that some in the churches who succumbed to temptation were destined for great tribulation, unless they repented:
"Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Rev 2:20-23 KJV)
And there were those who survived the tribulation, and were converted:
"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." (Rev 7:13-15 KJV)
Recall that Jesus never promised Christians that they would be kept from the tribulation: only that he would shorten the days of the tribulation for the sake of the elect:
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Mat 24:21-22 KJV)
He did, however, warn Christians to flee Judea (or to stay out of it) when they saw certain signs:
"Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto." (Luke 21:21; also Matt 24:16 and Mark 13:14)
However, it does not appear that any of the disciples avoided the tribulation. John wrote about it this way:
"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev 1:9 KJV)
Philip
Amen. “Babylon” in Rev. 18 was written ultimately in Greek, but likely had the Hebrew meaning attached to it: “Babel”=”Confusion.” Our nation is about as morally confused as is possible.
That’s what happens when God turns a people over to a reprobate mind. That’s a spiritually insane mind that doesn’t function.
BTW, I am premill also.
I would add, its not mentioned because the human being who wrote it down had no idea that 4 other continents even existed let alone would one day have nations upon them.
I highly suspect Australia, Antarctica, or any other nation on North or South America is mentioned.
So, I have an important question. It’s been bugging me for a very long time. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
;-)
When looking at statements in the Bible, one must figure out "who the audience is" - and in this case who God is talking to directly. When you go over the "list" of churches, you'll see that they are all in one particular area of the world, they all pertain to those who exist at that time, that they were distributed to those particular churches (besides the other places where they were transmitted among Christians) and that they all pertain to that particular time period.
If you've ever seen these multiple choice questions on a test, where they ask you (of the available choices) which ones are similar and which particular one does not fit with the others -- you'll see that "Philadelphia" in the USA is "OUT" - in comparison with the other choices of churches in that region and that time period.
Diversion and irrelevant ...
I agree. Greg Laurie has a long distinguished record as a winner of souls for the Lord. Those who speak ill of him are simply speaking from a position of blindness.
I think their understanding of “the world” could have an impact on their understanding of the ac’s causing all to follow him.
But then we’re told that the kings of the east are gathering separately from him. Not to say they didn’t agree with him, but they seem to be a separate coalition.
Diversion and irrelevant ...
I think the point is made. ;-)
How many prophets were slain in Babylon, though?
The only kind of person who would say what you just stated is someone who doesn't believe that God knows the beginning from the end (as He says) and doesn't believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the "Word of God" and doesn't believe (or doesn't know) anything about the "Inspiration of the Scriptures".
I conclude you are that type of person.
Diversion and irrelevant ...
2 Timothy 2:23, 24
But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,…
1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith.
1 Timothy 6:4
they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
2 Timothy 2:14
Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
James 4:1
What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?
BTW, I got that from this site. I highly recommend it: http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-23.htm
“(*in these days, “America” is the majority in this nation who remain Christian and constitutionally “Under God”, yet are increasingly at the mercy of the tyrannical secular/fascist state.)”
I don’t think there’s a Christian majority in America, not anymore. We may have a majority who profess to be Christian, but if they were truly Christian, then we wouldn’t be tolerating abortion and homo marriage, among other things.
Some say it’s Jerusalem, and there’s a real good statement in the Bible that indicates so.
“You are becoming tiresome.”
As are you.
You don’t want to have any discussion, you simply have taken offense that one Christian might note the weaknesses of Christian teaching by someone who you consider above any criticism. Did I say that Laurie was worthless as a teacher? No. Did I say that I find his Christology weak (typical of most American evangelicals)? Yes. That I did. Did I say that he is overly interested in eschatology (no doubt because his constituents are similarly overly interested in the things God has left unclear rather than those things He has made very clear. Since this thread is denoted as “premillenial caucus,” I assume that it is just that. Further, that its interests and predilections in terms of teaching lean in that direction. There is little wonder that in the 21st century America church, with its over interest in eschatology - pre-mil this, post-mil that, etc. - that there would be less interest in other areas of Christian teaching and, self-evidently, less tolerance of anyone pointing this out.
So, yes, you are probably right. It is better that I leave you to your own devices and insights on both issues and people (whether you know them or not).
Seventh Day Adventist. Whether you agree or disagree with their theology, a lot of the stuff they’ve been saying would happen is happening.
It also means that we are much closer to the Second Coming than than we think.
Blessings.
There are many groups that are now and have in the past been very honest about the condition of America.
Have the SDA’s said anything unique in that area?
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