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To: vladimir998
“Mother of Christ....right?”
Christ is God....right?
“A woman born as a sinner as you and I....right?” Nope.
“In need of salvation as you and I....right?”

Yes, but she was saved at the moment of her conception unlike you and I. Her Divine Son gave her a great gift of grace from the beginning. He saved her from sin from her beginning. You and I are saved by Christ differently for we have already sinned.

Where in the world do you get this stuff?? There is NOTHING in the Bible that suggests she was free/saved from sin at her conception. That is a HUGE assumption of Catholic teaching.

The justification used by the Catholic teaching is that the term favored one was a special title addressed to her. IT was used in Luke, but the same word is also used to describe believers in Ephesians 1:6. I've included the Greek definition below for reference.

Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

I know Catholic teaching then somehow stretches, and boy do I mean stretch, this to mean that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Again, another concept made up by man with NO Biblical support at all.

Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me — holy is His name” (Luke 1:46-49). Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/virgin-Mary.html#ixzz2wY94hyt0

262 posted on 03/20/2014 4:50:27 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: ealgeone

“Where in the world do you get this stuff??”

God - through His Church.

“There is NOTHING in the Bible that suggests she was free/saved from sin at her conception.”

There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that all truths are in the Bible.

“That is a HUGE assumption of Catholic teaching.”

No assumption at all. It has always been taught that Mary was sinless. Thus, there is no “HUGE assumption” here.

“The justification used by the Catholic teaching is that the term favored one was a special title addressed to her.”

No. That is not a justification. That is an explanation. Also, it is not “favored one” - that is merely a translation and not even the one traditionally favored (no pun intended) by Catholics. The Greek term is kecharitomene.

“IT was used in Luke, but the same word is also used to describe believers in Ephesians 1:6. I’ve included the Greek definition below for reference.”

I know the definition. And, although I may be mistaken because I don’t have any books here, I believe that it is not the same word in Ephesians 1:6 but a variant of charitoo namely echaritosen. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle, while echaritosen is an indicative active aorist. Again, I may be remembering something incorrectly.

“I know Catholic teaching then somehow stretches, and boy do I mean stretch, this to mean that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Again, another concept made up by man with NO Biblical support at all.”

You’re completely wrong. This passage has little to do with Mary being the Ark of the Covenant. Mary is the Ark because she carried the Word made flesh, the Manna from Heaven, who was also the new High Priest. The old ark contained the Decalogue tablets, manna and Aaron’s staff. The only link between the verse in question and Mary as the new Ark is the idea that Mary’s purity is related to that of the Ark. You might want to read this:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/mary-the-ark-of-the-new-covenant

http://www.salvationhistory.com/studies/lesson/queen_the_ark_of_the_new_covenant

“Mary herself sets the example for us, directing her worship, adoration, and praise to God alone: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of His servant.”

You’re forgetting what she said in verse 48:From now on all generations will call me blessed.

Also, we only adore God. If we praise a saint, it is only because of what God did for that saint. That’s why Mary says:for the Mighty One has done great things for me.

They are our family, the communion of saints.


270 posted on 03/20/2014 5:21:13 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: ealgeone
There is NOTHING in the Bible that suggests she was free/saved from sin at her conception.

Was anyone saved before the crucifixion and resurrection?

461 posted on 03/21/2014 7:29:03 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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