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To: roamer_1
>> Fine - All you have to do is explain how those Hebrew and Aramaic puns came to be hidden beneath the Greek text.<<

No, I don’t have to. It’s not difficult to understand that Jesus spoke mostly Aramaic and of course Hebrew especially when in the synagogue. The lingua franca of those days was Greek and the New Testament was written in Greek to relate to the masses. Talk to any translator and you will find that word puns can not be translated most of the time. That doesn’t mean the Matthew we first written in Hebrew it simply means that Matthew was writing what Jesus said and quotes from the Hebrew Old Testement in Greek so had to translate from Hebrew to Greek which caused the puns to remain. It’s a rather simply consept to understand really.

We know that Matthew was a Jew, it’s not difficult to understand that there are non common Greek words in his gospel. That does not by any means indicate he wrote his gospel first in Hebrew. We can find the same thing happening today with people from other countries who imigrated to the US who now write in English but still will use their original speech patterns which are foreign to us.

Another consideration is the historical evidence ot the Greek manuscripts that have survived while no Hebrew manuscripts are in existence. Surely the Shem Tov can’t be considered authentic.

Those who promote the sacred name movement put their understanding in a few Hebrew Rabbis who do not believe that Jesus is the messiah who promote the Hebrew. I’ll put my trust in God who used faithfull Christians who copied the 24,000 Greek manuscripts.

>> Right, so next time you meet a Mexican named Miguel, call him Mike, and be sure to tell him he has no right to be offended... because we speak English around here.<<

As a matter of fact I have done that very thing. In America we speak English. Want to do business with me. Speak English.

>> The one who is offended, and the one who is 'forcing', is the one insisting upon the Greek transliteration instead of the name it was transliterated from...<<

The day you can produce the Hebrew manuscripts that are older then the thousands we have in Greek we can talk.

>> Fine, if you want me to bump it up a notch, I surely can.<<

Go for it. Just keep it amongst the cult.

41 posted on 03/13/2014 4:49:55 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear
Talk to any translator and you will find that word puns can not be translated most of the time.

THERE's the truth, right there.

That doesn’t mean the Matthew we first written in Hebrew it simply means that Matthew was writing what Jesus said and quotes from the Hebrew Old Testement in Greek so had to translate from Hebrew to Greek which caused the puns to remain.

Except that the puns are not limited to the words of Yeshua... They are sprinkled throughout.

We know that Matthew was a Jew, it’s not difficult to understand that there are non common Greek words in his gospel. That does not by any means indicate he wrote his gospel first in Hebrew.

But that would be the simplest and most likely solution to the problem. If one doesn't have to protect Greek primacy, the simple solution would be the obvious one. Add the commentary of Josephus (who had a rough time with Greek, because 'his people' didn't encourage learning foreign languages), and the DSS vs Bar Kohkba letters showing vibrant Hebrew in use at the time complete with dialectic differences between Galilean and Judean, and there really is no doubt that Hebrew was a living language at the time.

Another consideration is the historical evidence ot the Greek manuscripts that have survived while no Hebrew manuscripts are in existence. Surely the Shem Tov can’t be considered authentic.

No consideration whatsoever - Rome, and the Roman church after Rome, destroyed everything Hebrew they ever got their hands upon. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In fact, it is glaringly absent since it has become known that Hebrew was indeed a living language at the time (and for 400 years after). One would expect Hebrew primacy coming out of Hebrew synagogues. How odd that the only language the Hebrews didn't write in WAS THEIR VERY OWN LANGUAGE.

Those who promote the sacred name movement put their understanding in a few Hebrew Rabbis who do not believe that Jesus is the messiah who promote the Hebrew.

Ahh... So YOU have some idea of where my faith comes from? YOU are the authority on MY faith? ROTFLMAO!!!

In fact I only put my faith in ONE Jewish Rabbi. Always have and always will.

Go for it. Just keep it amongst the cult.

Ahh, see? I have to shut up and ride in the back of the bus... And I am 'forcing' YOU? I am the hypocrite? LOL! Naw... I will ride in the front, and I will sit right next to you every chance I get... And I will continue to spout Hebraisms and with continued frequency, because I have every right to do so. And if it pisses you off, that ain't my problem, it's yours.

42 posted on 03/13/2014 7:22:13 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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