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To: Religion Moderator; Admin Moderator; irishjuggler; piusv; Mrs. Don-o; BlatherNaut; RitaOK; ...
Father Z has posted this update based upon some additional info he's gotten:

UPDATE:

A priest friend forwarded information from HIS priest friend in Dallas.  Thus, I will edit a great deal and use bullet points. These things either happened or they didn’t and can be verified one way or another:

All of these points (except the last, which was an opinion) suggest dysfunction which the new bishop needed to address.

It may indeed be that this is not about “hatred for the TLM”.  If that is the case, then Bp. Olson will surely want to make that clear in some way.

One commentator, below, observed that the bishop said that students could go to a parish, off-campus, where the TLM is offered, thus suggesting that he doesn’t have a problem with the TLM itself.

I hope that is the case.  The tone of the bishop’s letter certainly fueled that suspicion.  Getting some of the details out will help diffuse some of this tension about an “attack by a bishop on the TLM”.  It may not be that at all, though I still scratch my head about this.

As I said above, what we don’t know can fill volumes, that it will swiftly come out, and that we must must must pray for cooling heads and the help of our angelic companions.

RM/AM, can you please highlight the update in the title? Thanks.

7 posted on 03/03/2014 12:30:02 PM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Thank you for the speedy post of this update.


8 posted on 03/03/2014 12:54:08 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: markomalley
It may be that there are problems at Fisher-More, but why the ban? The ban implies that the TLM itself is the problem. If Fisher-More is bringing in suspended priests, the bishop has the right to stop it from doing that. But his solution should be to bring in acceptable priest(s). This smells a lot like an excuse to administer a death blow to this fledgling school.

Suppose that some 'normal' Catholic college allowed some liberal/leftist priest or nun onto campus to give a lecture denying some aspect of Catholic doctrine or dogma (believe me, it's probably happening as I type this), and the local bishop's reaction was to say, 'Okay, enough is enough. This place is a hotbed of heresy, and I'm banning the Novus Ordo on this campus. Extraordinary Form only for the kids until further notice.' Can we imagine the reaction?

And yet Summorum Pontificum says that the Ordinary Form and EF are two forms of the same rite and are of equal dignity. A bishop can no more ban the EF than the OF.
9 posted on 03/03/2014 12:56:10 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: markomalley
Regarding these points:

In May a prof of FMC (Fisher More College) gave a talk and denied aspects of Vatican II

Without hearing the exact quotation, and the exact "aspect" of VII denied, it's hard to make anything of it. Parts of VII seem at times to deny aspects of VII. I wish people who make these accusations would at least cite something, the way Evangelicals do, something like "That goes against Lumen Gentium 37 AND Gaudium et Spes 4!" We don't even get that. All in all, without the actual denial, I cannot call this a fact.

•The FSSP priests withdrew their services at FMC some time ago.
That's a fact. Need to know more.

•Taylor Marshall, married with several children, resigned his job at FMC without another job.

That can happen for a variety of reasons. Personality conflict might mean that the parties need MORE Masses, not fewer.

•At Thanksgiving, 2013, Fr. Nicholas Gruner, the suspended Fatima Priest, said Mass at FMC.
Was it a public or private Mass? In any event, how does disallowing non-suspended priests further the Church's salvific Mission?

These things took place when the Diocese of Fort Worth was vacant.

The original suspension of Lefebvre, when JPII was in the hospital. No one ever undid it.



This is very sad, and seems at odds with Pope Francis' message of understanding and reconciliation.
10 posted on 03/03/2014 1:04:45 PM PST by Dr. Sivana ("I'm a Contra" -- President Ronald Reagan)
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To: markomalley

>>— As is typical, certain bloggers who don’t like to do their homework, are suggesting the chaplains at Fisher More could have been SSPX or independent priests. A nominal amount of fact checking would have informed them that the first two chaplains were FSSP, and the third who just left was a Fathers of Mercy priest. And all three were personally approved by the previous bishop.<<

from rorate caeli


11 posted on 03/03/2014 1:09:24 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: markomalley

>>The orientation is unique among Catholic colleges, and it has led to some disagreements about tradition and contemporary Catholicism; a professor’s criticisms of the Second Vatican Council last academic year provoked internal debate, and concerns prompted the chancellor and a professor to resign.<<

But Dr. King says the College does not question the validity of the Ordinary Form Mass and eagerly submits “with mind and will to the infallible teachings of the Church and Her ordinary and universal Magisterium.”<<

http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/TheNewmanGuide/RecommendedColleges/FisherMoreCollege.aspx


12 posted on 03/03/2014 1:38:40 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: markomalley
One commentator, below, observed that the bishop said that students could go to a parish, off-campus, where the TLM is offered, thus suggesting that he doesn’t have a problem with the TLM itself.

I have been told that the fact that there is a TLM available SOMEWHERE in my diocese (albeit in an inacessible place at an inconvenient hour) is an adequate response to Summorum Pontificum and a reasonable excuse for disbanding a long-established group of parishioners. The net effect is, of course, that fewer people will be able to attend the TLM, and the chancery knows this. The TLM "problem" is thereby solved through attrition.

Regarding Fr. Gruner, he says he is incardinated in India, yet the Vatican refuses to recognize his incardination. IF what he says is true, then he is the victim of a grave injustice. Regarding the Fatima message, it is a fact that the consecration in the exact form specifically requested by the Blessed Virgin has not yet occurred. It's interesting that we are now seeing the errors of Russia repackaged under the guise of liberation theology and actually marketed by the Vatican in Cardinal Mueller's book (prefaced by Pope Francis).

Regarding "denying aspects of Vatican II", there are legitimate questions regarding the abruption and discontinuity with Tradition that the council unleashed, and some statements within the documents that are contradictory and vague. Since Faith and reason are supposed to be inseparable, there are clearly questions that should be addressed.

I sincerely hope that the Fisher More students and faculty will be treated justly by their bishop. There seems to be a developing pattern of intolerance toward traditional Catholicism and against those who legitimately question the prudence of certain papal comments and behaviors, and who dare to question the problems regarding Vatican II. The FFI demolition, the Radio Maria firings, the CMTV manifesto, and the derogatory comments by the pope appear to be part of a new backlash against traditional Catholicism. Whether this Fisher More situation is also part of the unfortunate trend is still unclear.

13 posted on 03/03/2014 1:45:19 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: markomalley

We’d all be better off if Fr. Nicholas Gruner was pope.


17 posted on 03/03/2014 2:52:30 PM PST by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: irishjuggler; piusv; Mrs. Don-o; RitaOK; Dr. Sivana; BlatherNaut; pbear8; Salvation
UPDATE:

From a source in a diocesan office Somewhere In The English Speaking World, edited and with my emphases and comments:

This morning I asked our excellent team of orthodox canon lawyers to comment on the situation at Fisher More as reported by Rorate. Here are their thoughts:

Essentially they said the whole matter centers on the fact that Masses for the school are held in an oratory[that's why I raised the issue of "parish", above] because of this, they said the bishop is probably on solid ground despite the fact that they “took an immediate dislike of the bishop when reading the decree.”
[...]

Canon 1225 states that “All sacred celebrations can be performed in legitimately established oratories except those which the law or a prescript of the local ordinary excludes or the liturgical norms prohibit.”

Everything that happens within oratories are subject to regulation by the local ordinary. Because the local ordinary can lawfully regulate, restrict, or eliminate the celebration of the Mass or any of the sacraments in any oratory in his diocese, our canonists said that he most likely can restrict which form of the Mass is celebrated, because “he who can do the greater can do the lesser.” If you can prohibit Mass outright, the principle in law would suggest that you certainly can prohibit one form of the celebration. Furthermore, this is in a similar vein of regulating activities in Oratories with stipulations — for instance, “the Mass may only be celebrated in this oratory when some of the Christian faithful are present,” or “the Mass may only be celebrated in this oratory if extraordinary ministers of holy communion are not used.” [That's gonna happen!]

Again, the whole thing here hinges upon the fact [presumed] that the ordinary is regulating the activities in an oratory. (If there was a parish church across the street from Fisher More, and the pastor gave approval for the priests of the college to celebrate the vetus ordo their every day, the bishop could not prevent it because the situation would fall under the norms of Summorum and UE). [My point, above.]

[...]

There is some doubt about his ability to differentiate between the forms… and hopefully ED [Ecclesia Dei?] will swoop in and issue a clear statement…. but we’ll just have to see. [Don't hold your breath.  And... I must add... it isn't always a good idea to ask when you don't know the answer in advance.]

If the oratory at Fisher More is really a private chapel instead of an oratory (unlikely but technically possible), Canon 1228 — which governs the sacraments in chapels — is even more restrictive: “Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 1227, the permission of the local ordinary is required for Mass or other sacred celebrations to take place in any private chapel.”

There you have more grist for the mill.

UPDATE:

This, from a person who wrote to the PCE about the situation for the chapel of a Catholic college:

 

18 posted on 03/03/2014 2:55:54 PM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

**Fr. Nicholas Gruner, the suspended Fatima Priest, said Mass at FMC**

Is this suspended priest the only priest saying Mass at this college?

If so, I see why the Bishop banned the TLM. (Probably the priest wasn’t qualified to celebrate it.)


21 posted on 03/03/2014 4:15:25 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: markomalley

Dr. Taylor Marshall:

https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall?ref=stream&hc_location=timeline
“I am preparing some comments on Fisher More. I want to pray and make sure that all is said in charity and truth. Most people don’t know the whole story about Fisher More and so they are scandalized. I hope to find a way for people to see that there is a horrible pastoral situation at FMC and the Bishop is acting rightly (and not in violation of SP).”


27 posted on 03/04/2014 6:40:39 AM PST by iowamark (I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy)
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