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To: CynicalBear; boatbums; dartuser; af_vet_1981
>>>You must also believe that the “violent” took over the kingdom of heaven because Jesus also said that just prior to His comment about Elijah.<<<

Since the Words of Jesus will judge me on the last day, I would be hard-pressed (or, be an absolute fool) to NOT believe Jesus when he said,

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Mat 11:12)

Explain yourself, Cynical Bear?

Philip

340 posted on 02/28/2014 12:08:41 PM PST by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau
Since the Words of Jesus will judge me on the last day, I would be hard-pressed (or, be an absolute fool) to NOT believe Jesus when he said,

Philip, I know you have written of your background as an engineer, and that you have many years. I entreat you as a father. You may seek to solve these mysteries like you would an engineering problem. They can only be understood by the Spirit of God, in meekness and faith. We can not understand what He does not reveal to us. We are responsible for what He does reveal. He has bequeathed us unity. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Note the future tense concerning Elijah; he then says Elijah has already come; note the past tense; two advents for Elijah; two advents for Messiah. Note all the prophecies for which there is no credible fulfillment yet, pending the second advent.

    Now look at the Didache 16 says, which dates from the late First or early Second Century (after 70 AD/CE); your view does not conform to this tradition of the early Catholic and Apostolic Church which refer to the obvious texts we have already discussed (2 Thess 2, etal.). We must therefore in good conscience reject it. Preterism clearly does not conform to the it does not agree with us who seek unity with our brethren.
  1. Watch over your life, that your lamps are never quenched, and that your loins are never unloosed. Be ready, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
  2. Come together often, seeking the things that are good for your souls. A life of faith will not profit you if you are not made perfect at the end of time.
  3. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters will be plenty, and the sheep will be turned into wolves, and love will be turned into hate.
  4. When lawlessness increases, they will hate and persecute and betray one another, and then the world-deceiver will appear claiming to be the Son of God, and he will do signs and wonders, and the earth will be delivered into his hands, and he will do iniquitous things that have not been seen since the beginning of the world.
  5. Then humankind will enter into the fire of trial, and many will be made to stumble and many will perish; but those who endure in their faith will be saved from under the curse itself.
  6. And then the signs of the truth will appear: the first sign, an opening of the heavens; the second sign, the sounding of the trumpet; and the third sign, the resurrection of the dead—
  7. not of every one, but as it is said: "Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him."
  8. Finally, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory."

345 posted on 03/01/2014 7:28:46 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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