Posted on 01/30/2014 2:50:42 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
» 01/30/2014 11:57
VATICAN
Pope says its absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church, to be with Christ at the margins of the Church"
Vatican City ( AsiaNews) - "It's absurd to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church" , because the "first fruit of Baptism is to make you belong to the Church" and that "membership " has three pillars : humility , faithfulness and prayer for the Church. This is what Pope Francis said today during his homily at Mass celebrated at Casa Santa Marta.
The Pope, Vatican Radio reports, was speaking about King David, as presented by the readings of the day: a man who speaks with the Lord as a son speaks with his father and even if his requests meet with a "no", he accepts this with joy. David had "a strong feeling of belonging to the people of God." And this makes us wonder about our sense of belonging to the Church, our feeling with the Church and in the Church.
"The Christian is not a baptized who receives baptism and then goes on his way. The first fruit of Baptism is to make you belong to the Church, the People of God. You cannot understand a Christian without the Church. This is why the great Paul VI said that it is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church, to listen to Christ but not the Church, to be with Christ at the margins of the Church. It's not possible. It is an absurd dichotomy. We receive the Gospel message in the Church and we carry out our holiness in the Church, our path in the Church. The other is a fantasy, or, as he said, an absurd dichotomy".
The "sensus ecclesiae" is "precisely to feel, think, want, within the Church". There are " three pillars of this belonging, this feeling with the Church . The first is humility" in the awareness of the great grace of being "inserted in a community":
"A person who is not humble, can not hear the Church, they can only hear what they like. We see this humility in David, ' Who am I , O Lord God , and what is my home?'. That realization that the story of salvation did not begin with me and will not end with me when I die. No, it's a whole history of salvation : I come, the Lord will take you, will help go onwards and then calls you and the story continues. The history of the Church began before us and will continue after us. Humility: we are a small part of a great people, that walks the path of the Lord".
The second pillar is fidelity, "that is linked to obedience". "Fidelity to the Church, fidelity to its teaching; fidelity to the Creed; fidelity to the doctrine, safeguarding this doctrine. Humility and fidelity. Even Paul VI reminded us that we receive the message of the Gospel as a gift and we need to transmit it as a gift, but not as a something of ours: it is a gift that we received. And be faithful in this transmission . Because we have received and we have to gift a Gospel that is not ours, that is Jesus', and we must not - he would say - become masters of the Gospel, masters of the doctrine we have received, to use it as we please".
The third pillar is a special service "to pray for the Church." "How is our prayer for the Church? Do we pray for the Church? Every day at Mass, but at home? When do we say our prayers?". "Do we pray for the entire Church, all over the world?". May the Lord - the Pope concluded - help us to go down this path to deepen our belonging to the Church and our feeling with the Church".
Thank you very, very much for an even more expansive answer to my reply to infinnegan. I appreciate your elaboration on the question of baptism in the Church.
I also appreciate the chapter and verse you quite capably provided on “membership baptisms”, found rather common in protestant communities, for the shocked and disbelieving.
Perhaps it is you who forgot that Paul wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit sacred Scripture which was for ALL believers? Or do you think what he wrote to the believers in Corinth didn't apply to those, say, in Ephesus or today to ALL believers?
Oh, you mean like posting a thread that says all Christians have to be Roman Catholics or they aren't real churches? Does this not count as bashing? Are only Catholics bashable now?
Somebody needs to put her big girl panties on. ;o)
Why do you think these people were baptized twice? I was baptized as a baby without ANY faith at all required of me. Why is it strange to be baptized again when I really did receive Jesus Christ as my Savior?
Yeah, I call dooky on that one, too.
Your initial post implied that Protestants get baptized "many" times. You said, "Many protestant churches encourage, or agree to, second and third baptisms for newcomers, in there particular church. The way you said it made it sound like every time someone wants to join a new church, they get baptized again. That is not anything I have ever heard. In my case, I was baptized when I received Jesus Christ as my Savior and joined a Southern Baptist Church. This was technically a re-baptism, but the first one was done TO me when I was a little baby and I had no expression of faith. The second one I count as the REAL one and I believe God honors it, too. When I joined an Evangelical church when we moved, I did not get baptized again and there was no need to.
Is this one of those "Protestant" myths you Catholics fall for?
Wait a sec...are you admitting that the Catholic Church fell into corruption??? Would that be those gates of hell knocking?
And, BTW...the Reformers DID try very hard to reform the "Holy Mother Church", but those in charge rejected their attempts, excommunicated them, persecuted them and even executed some. You can't reform what refuses to acknowledge it needs it.
And I’ll bet Posey Trail Christian Church on Posey Street is straighter on the gospel than the local Roman Catholic one.
You are all welcome to Catholic Mass. Anytime... hope to see you there....
In truth, the council that did the reforms was called Trent.
Here is an interesting commentary. God Bless.
http://www.ignitumtoday.com/2013/12/05/answers-to-a-pagan-christmas/
Thank-you and God Bless.
Trent was Rome digging it’s heels in against the Reformers.
I am staying put where I am at.
I too often wonder if they sort of get it but cant admit because that would put chinks in other areas of belief. Then I wonder if it is just our eternal optimism.
One thing I have been convinced of in the last couple of days is that all too many find comfort in their group rather than in Christ.
Ive often wondered if he and the others really understood the impact they would have for the period of time their writings have lasted. I cant imagine that in their carnal mind they did.
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