Posted on 01/28/2014 7:27:17 PM PST by NKP_Vet
"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.
What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.com ...
Are you saying the Catholic Chuch can say something contrary to the Bible and it is to be accepted as the word of God based on the Catholic Church’s authority?
Jesus Christ is a historical person who gave his authority to his Church to teach, govern, and sanctify in his place.
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So does that mean that the Koran is basically equal to the bible as the pope said last week?
“Sharing our experience in carrying that cross, to expel the illness within our hearts, which embitters our life: it is important that you do this in your meetings. Those that are Christian, with the Bible, and those that are Muslim, with the Quran. The faith that your parents instilled in you will always help you move on.”
That has worked for 2000 years. Even the priest FATHER Marin Luther believed that. But then Luther wasn't around until 1500 years AFTER Christ and the founding of the Catholic Church, was he?
WELL put, bramps.
You must be almost as old as I am to have such good common sense.
Reason states that beliefs or practices that clearly are not consistent with Scripture are therefore of Man and not of God.
I don't think it is to play the part that Catholics try to give it; which is something like precedent in the legal-world applied against constitutionality:
Mark 7:1-13 (NRSV)
The Tradition of the Elders
Now when the Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem gathered around him, they noticed that some of his disciples were eating with defiled hands, that is, without washing them. (For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they thoroughly wash their hands, thus observing the tradition of the elders; and they do not eat anything from the market unless they wash it; and there are also many other traditions that they observe, the washing of cups, pots, and bronze kettles.) So the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?” He said to them, “Isaiah prophesied rightly about you hypocrites, as it is written,
‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching human precepts as doctrines.’
You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition.”
Then he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’ But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, ‘Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban’ (that is, an offering to God)— then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.”
“If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!” isn’t that a misconception of sola scriptura ? My understanding is every doctrine needed for Salvation is contained in the Scriptures.
According to Paul, the spoken words of the apostles were the word of God. In fact, when Paul wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians, he urged Christians there to receive the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are the word of God:
So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thess. 2:15)
And people that argue and like to argue are not at peace.
I wonder;
When I think of the word and concept of 'tradition', I'm travelling some years back
A tradition in MY family is at least a hundred years old.
How far back, do you suppose, Paul was going when he spoke of "traditions" ?
What about Rev 22:18-19?:
Revelation 22:18-19
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
18 Here is my warning for everyone who hears the prophecies in this book:
If you add anything to them, God will make you suffer all the terrible troubles written in this book. 19 If you take anything away from these prophecies, God will not let you have part in the life-giving tree and in the holy city described in this book.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That passage seems to indicate that nothing else is on a par with the Bible.
How do Catholics reconcile that? Not trying to be snarky - just want to hear the Catholic viewpoint on that.
I dunno, I can really enjoy a good argument — but then there's not a spirit of "gotcha", but usually at least a respect for the truth and an honest attempt to get at it.
One thing I've found to be particularly helpful is to use a higher scripture:me ration — a good example awhile back was one guy [smvoice] thumping on 2 Timothy 2:15 and rightly dividing the word of God
, ignoring possible different ways of reading the verse (or the context) or different translations… in the end he was silent when he couldn't explain how the single verse could fit the way he was interpreting it fit in-context with the surrounding text.
And that really matters because the Catholic church never wrote anything down. The Catholic church hadn't finished the Bible so no one could read it. Finally, the Holy Spirit took all those years off.
If it's tomayto vs. tomahto, it can be linguistically envigorating .. (my uncle did not marry an insect)
NO argument is worth coming to blows, losing friendships or making one hurt. They should by mental gymnastics (imo, of course)
Sola Scriptura is a dogmatic position and once one comes to the position of accepting (or rejecting) it ... there's really nothing anyone can say.
There's new FreepeRs coming on every day, so I guess it serves a purpose.
And so we learn that Tim Staples is an idiot who can't articulate what sola scriptura means. No wonder he became a Catholic!
“Three things are necessary for the salvation of man: to know what he ought to believe; to know what he ought to desire; and to know what he ought to do.” May we always believe in and desire the Truth and live it out in our lives! Happy feast day of St. Thomas Aquinas!
Re 11, why does it matter how far back the tradition went ? Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and whatever tradition he taught the you can rely on. The issue is what traditions did he teach that are not recorded in his surviving writings, and how can we know.
The silence of Scripture on sola scriptura is deafening. But when it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition and to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the text is clear:
If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. . . . But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you. . . . If he refuses to listen . . . tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matt. 18:15-17)
According to Scripture, the Church is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith, morals, and discipline. It is telling that since the Reformation of almost 500 years ago—a Reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 Protestant denominations. In John 10:16, Jesus prophesied there would be “one flock, one shepherd.” Reliance on sola scriptura has not been effective in establishing doctrine or authority.
Matt. 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Those words written in scripture are what we must listen to, not unfounded manmade religious doctrine which we were specifically warned not to obey. Yeshua demonstrated this himself time and time again in his teachings as well as deed.
In spite of this apostasy, the truth will be preached throughout the world. Then the end of this age will come.
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