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To: vladimir998

“Salvation comes from Christ. Christ uses the Church to give grace to us. You can’t have the gospel without the Church, and you can’t have the Church without the gospel. They always go together.”

I am sure that is firmly rooted in the catechism, but not the Holy Scriptures. Please point out where in the doctrines of the NT (for example Romans) it is asserted the church is a vehicle for giving grace to believers.

No doubt the mission of the church and all its members is to proclaim and preach the gospel. That is our Great Commission.


398 posted on 01/24/2014 9:03:36 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

-— I am sure that is firmly rooted in the catechism, but not the Holy Scriptures. Please point out where in the doctrines of the NT (for example Romans) it is asserted the church is a vehicle for giving grace to believers. -—

Your premise is invalid, since it is self-contradictory. The idea that the only valid Christian doctrines must be contained in Scripture, isn’t found in Scripture. It is a novelty invented by Luther.

Regardless, “the church of the living God” is “the pillar and foundation of truth.” Jesus said, “if he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” Jesus also said to his Apostles, “he who hears you, hears me.” And we are to hold fast to the Apostolic traditions “handed down by word of mouth or by letter.”

So Apostolic Tradition and Church Teaching are sources of Christian Authority, in addition to Scripture.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/sacraments_in_scripture.htm

And the efficaciousness of the Sacraments in imparting grace is found in Apostolic Tradition and confirmed by Christ’s Church.


403 posted on 01/24/2014 9:32:06 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: redleghunter

“I am sure that is firmly rooted in the catechism, but not the Holy Scriptures.”

Yes, it is. Jesus said He would establish the Church and He did. The Church is His Body, His Bride. The gospel and Church always go together. There is no way to separate them.

“Please point out where in the doctrines of the NT (for example Romans) it is asserted the church is a vehicle for giving grace to believers.”

Wherever you found the Apostles - those who spread the gospel - you found the Church. The same is true of the sacraments. They are part and parcel of the Church’s life and authority. So, open Romans and look at 6:1-14. See baptism? See Paul? That’s a sacrament of the Church (from Christ) for the forgiveness of sins, and an Apostle (sent by Christ and the Church) teaching Christians (members of the Church). Did that not occur to you?


414 posted on 01/24/2014 10:10:03 PM PST by vladimir998
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