Posted on 01/23/2014 9:29:40 PM PST by NKP_Vet
1. Best One-Sentence Summary: I am convinced that the Catholic Church conforms much more closely to all of the biblical data, offers the only coherent view of the history of Christianity (i.e., Christian, apostolic Tradition), and possesses the most profound and sublime Christian morality, spirituality, social ethic, and philosophy.
2. Alternate: I am a Catholic because I sincerely believe, by virtue of much cumulative evidence, that Catholicism is true, and that the Catholic Church is the visible Church divinely-established by our Lord Jesus, against which the gates of hell cannot and will not prevail (Mt 16:18), thereby possessing an authority to which I feel bound in Christian duty to submit.
3. 2nd Alternate: I left Protestantism because it was seriously deficient in its interpretation of the Bible (e.g., "faith alone" and many other "Catholic" doctrines - see evidences below), inconsistently selective in its espousal of various Catholic Traditions (e.g., the Canon of the Bible), inadequate in its ecclesiology, lacking a sensible view of Christian history (e.g., "Scripture alone"), compromised morally (e.g., contraception, divorce), and unbiblically schismatic, anarchical, and relativistic. I don't therefore believe that Protestantism is all bad (not by a long shot), but these are some of the major deficiencies I eventually saw as fatal to the "theory" of Protestantism, over against Catholicism. All Catholics must regard baptized, Nicene, Chalcedonian Protestants as Christians.
4. Catholicism isn't formally divided and sectarian (Jn 17:20-23; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10-13).
5. Catholic unity makes Christianity and Jesus more believable to the world (Jn 17:23).
6. Catholicism, because of its unified, complete, fully supernatural Christian vision, mitigates against secularization and humanism.
7. Catholicism avoids an unbiblical individualism which undermines Christian community (e.g., 1 Cor 12:25-26).
8. Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.
(Excerpt) Read more at ourcatholicfaith.org ...
“Leading Catholic and non-Catholic theologians have done just that for over 2000 years”
Weird, I don’t remember Calvin or Luther or any of those “leading non-Catholic theologians” making such a stupid concession.
“The Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded for the purpose of salvation.”
Modifiers are important. The example we have in the NT is of the apostles and disciples preaching the Gospel (see 1 Corinthians 15) and those who believed went down in the water and were added to the Body of Christ-church. The Gospel is not the catechism. Salvation comes from the shed Blood of Christ for the remission of sins. The church is not the object of salvation but the body of the saved believers.
Put differently, the church does not justify, sanctify or glorify a believer. That is the Work of Jesus Christ as each who are called by the Father and convicted by the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 18:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
Dealing With Sin in the Church
15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Sometimes catechism might take primacy over evangelization.
I am happy and truly believe in what I believe, but provoking other Christians this way will not get you or others to agree with me, rather it will only cause hatred and shut ears
nor a city-state.
Put differently, the church does not justify, sanctify or glorify a believer. That is the Work of Jesus Christ as each who are called by the Father and convicted by the Holy Spirit.
What are you? I like how you teach.
All salvation is through the Catholic Church, which Christ founded. Non-Catholics, and non-Christians, have the possibility of salvation if they cooperate with the grace that God has given them. There is also the concept of invincible ignorance. The possibility of salvation exists if someone is not a Catholic because they never really learned what it was through no fault of their own(e.g. lived in a jungle, or even a Christian who doesn’t fully understand Catholicism).
I think kissing the Koran was a bad idea. Again, popes have done worse and may very well do worse in the future.
justified by faith alone , not works
saved by grace alone, not earned
for determining our Christian beliefs and any disputes about our faith, it’s the bible alone, above man’s traditions or separate writings
Julius II and Leo X had absolutely no part I am sure.
The Church sits on heavenly mount Sion, not in a dusty old city in Italy:
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant. . ." (Heb 12:22-24)
There is no chain-of-command in the Church.
Where is the part that says we should call our church leader "Father?"
Philip
i am not a pope but i am a Christian and i would never kiss that wicked, evil demonically-inspired and possessed written piece of crap that is called the koran.
for a guy in that high and visible influential leadership position to do that , why not just kiss a satanic bible as well? seriously.
many catholic clergy i’ve spoken with believe muslims will be saved because they just love Mary. i am not kidding. and m,ost of the recent popes’ behaviors towards muslims makes me believe it’s a belief held from the top down.
I am quite sure Pope Francis was misquoted or the translator gooned it up again. /s
as someone said earlier, the gospel and a denomination’s catechism are two diferent things. it’s probably a good point we all should remember if our posting intent is to help unify or build up all christians.
Indulgences?
Didn't you read the OP? Mr. Armstrong said, "All Catholics must regard baptized, Nicene, Chalcedonian Protestants as Christians." Do you disagree with him and your own Catechism which says people can be genuine, saved Christians outside of the Catholic Church? The goal is the same as it usually is - to assert the Roman Catholic Church is the superior Christian faith tradition and EVERYONE must become one if they want salvation (in the "fullest" sense). Plenty of us here came OUT of the Roman Catholic Church and have found THE genuine faith taught by Christ and His Apostles. We have no desire to go back.
What was the author saying about others "lacking a sensible view of Christian history"? Were you unaware that the East/West schism happened five hundred years BEFORE the Reformation? What was THAT about?
I am curious what does Billy Graham have anything to do with any of the others on your list of invectives?
If you are going to call Graham a heretic, then add Paul of Tarsus to your list. Both preached the same Gospel (see 1 Corinthians 15).
“Non-Catholics, and non-Christians, have the possibility of salvation if they cooperate with the grace that God has given them. There is also the concept of invincible ignorance.”
Darn, I was hoping to suck you into my trap. So then you are aware that the RCC teaches that salvation is possible for those who deny Jesus Christ, such as the Muslims. Which really beats to death your claim that becoming a Catholic would make “Non-Catholics” have a higher chance of salvation. As long as they “cooperate” with the grace given to them, then they can still be saved.
But the scripture disagrees with you, since there is no such thing as invincible ignorance, or excuses, or a grace that is given that does not lead directly to Christ. As the scripture says, all men are guilty before God, regardless of how much “light” they have received (Rom 3:19). As all men have received, to a certain extent, the law of God imprinted on their hearts, as well as the light of nature revealing the existence of God, therefore they are summarily rendered “without excuse,” (Rom 1:20, 2:14) and “as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law” (Rom 2:12). And again, “for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God”(Rom 3:9-11). And again, all those who do not know God have no hope, and lack God in the world (Eph 2:12).
And finally, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me,” and, to “come” is to believe: “But there are some of you who do not believe... This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (Joh 6:37, 64-65), thus it cannot be claimed that there are those who are saved who exist amongst horrid cults or false religions who deny the Father and the Son, since all those whom the Father gives to the Son do not stand idle, but come rushing into the arms of the savior according to His plan and promise.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
If any man is in the world who never heard the Gospel, it was by the infallible power of God, and not by random chance, that he was left so abandoned. And, therefore, it was one of those whom God chose not to have mercy on, in accordance with His almighty sovereignty (Rom 9:18-21).
“I think kissing the Koran was a bad idea.’
But, logically, you cannot think that it is “wrong,” since the plan of salvation includes Muslims, according to the Roman Catholic church.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. (Ephesians 2:8)
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