Posted on 01/18/2014 8:57:41 PM PST by narses
Last week, I suggested that having comprehensively and repeatedly apologised for the small number of priests who have in some way sexually abused children and young people, it was time we moved on to the offensive against those who (often with an undeclared anti-Catholic agenda) continually assert that the Church is in some way particularly prone to this disgusting crime. I referred to a Newsweek article which said that “priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else”.
The fact is, however, that not only is the Catholic Church NOT an endemically paedophile organisation, the evidence is now emerging that, in fact, even Newsweek is exaggerating: it’s not that “priests… abuse children at the same rate as everyone else”: actually, according to Dr Thomas Plante of Stanford University and Santa Clara University, “available research suggests that approximately two to five per cent of priests have had a sexual experience with a minor” which “is lower than the general adult male population” – in which the percentage of those who have interfered with minors “is best estimated to be closer to eight per cent”. In other words, children who have anything to do with priests are between 1.6 and four times LESS likely to be abused by them than by anyone else.
“When,” asks the blog La Salette Journey, giving these and other details, “will the media acknowledge that the sexual abuse of children is not a ‘Catholic problem’?” The fact is, suggests the writer, Paul Anthony Melanson, that “the media are not so much concerned with the welfare of children as they are with unfairly portraying the abuse of children as a ‘crisis in the Church’ ”. For example, the state school system in the US has a considerably higher rate of sexual abuse than the Catholic Church: according to a report prepared for the US Department of Education entitled Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature, “9.6 per cent of all students in grades 8 to 11 report… educator sexual misconduct that was unwanted.” This report has been virtually ignored by the media.
But the penny is just beginning to drop. An article by Jim Dwyer in the New York Times reported (April 27) that the New York State legislature is now addressing the fact that child abuse is not only a problem for the Church, but for the whole of society. “Should it be possible,” asks Dwyer “… to sue the city of New York for sexual abuse by public school teachers that happened decades ago? How about doctors or hospital attendants? Police officers? Welfare workers? Playground attendants? … To date, New York City has been publicly silent…. but sees the possibility of enormous expenses.”
Well, join the club, New York City. As Dwyer’s article points out: “Since 2004, Catholic dioceses nationwide have paid $1.4bn to settle claims of abuse, many from acts from the 1970s or earlier… Yet [he continues] there is little evidence to show there is more sexual abuse among Catholic priests than among clergy from other denominations, or, for that matter, among people from other walks of life.”
That’s the bottom line. This is a problem we share with everyone, though actually we are less guilty of it than society as a whole and are doing a lot better in acknowledging such child abuse as does exist. We need to get that, and the evidence for it, firmly into our heads. We have a battle ahead: we all need to be prepared for it.
Agreed. However teachers do not hear confessions, bind and loose sins, and reside and call upon sacraments as Catholic doctrine expresses. In your church priests are intercessors for the laity with Christ Jesus. They, I would expect, should be held to a much higher standard of conduct given the laity rely on their intercession for salvation according to your doctrine. But it seems many here are comfortable the Roman Catholic clergy are “not as bad” as the liberal leftists teaching in secular schools.
It is not my point that priests need to be perfect. They are not. They are fallible men who sin as we do. However your church puts so much on their shoulders to not only shepherd but perform the intercessions which your tradition says is required for salvation and participation in the holy sacraments.
It would sure help if you would read my posts before you make the mistake of disagreeing with them.
You just repeated what I have pointed out, Catholic leadership is famous for homosexuality, not the usual sexual failings that haunt all of man's institutions.
I said this in the very post that you misread.
Post 97-""There is something in the structure of the Catholic denomination that is different than other Christian denominations, all of man's institutions have weak and bad elements in them resulting in sexual failings of affairs and such, but the Catholic denomination is famous for church leadership that fails not as men with women, but as men seeking and desiring male flesh.
The homosexuality that the church is famous for, really blows people away.""
“Catholic leadership is famous for homosexuality”.
????????????????????
Please cite me examples of known homosexual US bishops and while you’re at it give me the names of homosexual popes.
I noticed at my dad’s funeral mass that both altar “boys” were girls. When I went to pay them for their duties in the mass (a Roman Catholic funeral mass is not cheap!) I asked how many young ladies serve as altar “boys” in their parish. One told me 8.
The reason we are having this discussion is the Catholic denominations history and fame for homosexual practices.
When people talk about Catholic sex scandals it is rarely about running off with the female organist, or succumbing to sex with a female.
As you pointed out in post 100, for the leaders of the Catholic denomination, it is the male on male, the desire for and seeking of male flesh that haunts the men who lead that denomination.
You are correct there are corrupt “shepherds” in other Christian denominations and assemblies. I can only speak for my denomination which has elders. No one man wields absolute power. The elders AND laity using Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5, will remove offenders. They are no longer allowed to fellowship and obeying civil law will report the matter. The same scriptures tell us how to welcome back a repentant sinner.
No one is claiming there is a perfect spotless assembly out there. I will also note that clergy or elders/overseers in most other Christian denominations are not figures who are deemed by their church to give absolution or preside over the Holy sacraments to include calling upon the elements to change.
Yep and Boom.
Shhhh things are so bad there are more altar girls these days.
It wouldn’t. However they may draw more normal men to become priests if marriage was allowed.
Excellent commentary.
Well that was really deep. This thread is sure lowering the expectations and status of the leaders of the Catholic church.Sorry, didn't know you were Trolling.
You are a bit late to the conversation. The “blame the victim” defense was used already. Probably a good area for you to research is a case where a priest went to court and won.
When I did such a search the best I could find was “Priest wins lottery.”
So using your approach that it is money and these kids and their families are lying, one would think we could find at least 5? 6? or more cases where the priest or dioceses went to court and won. I just can’t find any. Maybe you can.
If you find such exonerated cases, let us know. Then we can compare how many were settled out of court.
When you post something as silly as “”Teachers are people. Catholic Priests are people. “”, you just have to endure the embarrassment, it doesn’t call for you lashing out with a nasty personal attack to try and recover.
Good data. What in your estimation is different with how these Prot cases were handled and prosecuted?
I read a few turned themselves in; every case was brought to civil authorities and all are going to court under criminal charges. Sounds like some policing of the ranks is going on here.
Good reference. A church built on one man where he wields absolute power over the “flock.” Sounds familiar. In organizations where one man is in charge, the fall is deeper and harder. If this Long guy leaves there is no more “church” since it was built on his personality. Again, organizations that give the clergy absolute power fall to sin and corruption.
You just dug up the black protestant version of Rome. All Long needs is a pointy hat.
I’m trying to point out that teachers have nothing do with Catholic Priests,Yes, I did think it was silly you needed to be schooled on basics. Have fun Trolling against your hated Catholics. What's this... day 2 now?
Looking at the source, it seems this Prot megachurch “pastor” has supreme authority over all church matters. There is no mechanism to dethrone him since he sets the rules. Sounds familiar.
The problem was never how many priests did it, the problem has always been how the Church dealt (or really didn’t) with it. No organization is immune from scumbags, but you can’t cover it up, you can’t declare your group above the law.
Seriously, the similarity of the millions of teachers to the Catholic leadership is that they are both “people”?
We already knew that, perhaps when you can move past the defensive personal attacks you attempt to rely on, you can actually answer the post you keep attacking about.
To: narses
Talking about the many millions of teachers that are just all kinds and types of generic people from all walks of life and who merely work at a day job with no connection to each other, or each other’s employers or states, or anything, isn’t the answer, what they have to do with Catholic Priests is zero.
16 posted on 1/18/2014 9:30:42 PM by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee — JFK told me that “he was all for people’s solving their problems by abortion”.)
Metmom gave Roman Catholics wide latitude to present cases. You can check the archives of stories for Protestants, Evangelicals and non-denomination churches or assemblies.
Salvation gave a link to such pastors or ministers who either confessed to civil authorities or victims turning them in. All are being prosecuted. Which tells me those churches don’t tolerate their children getting raped. Which also tells me their laity have sway to remove such offenders and report them to civil authorities for justice.
NK sent a good link to a pastor who has absolute authority over his church members and settled the cases with money and won’t remove himself. That method sounds familiar.
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