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To: FatherofFive; Gamecock
Let me use an analogy.

Your analogy fails because.... You are not God.

The problem that you have, and it is a problem I struggled with for 30 years is that you can't call a God who exercises his divine sovereignty and who actively chooses whom he will save "evil" merely because he doesn't save those whom he does not save and then turn around and call a God who creates people whom he knows beforehand will never ever be saved and who are equally as damned as "good".

No matter how you slice it, God makes the decision on whom he will create and whom he will allow into his presence. You don't get that choice. The "choice" was foreordained before the foundation of the Earth.

You can claim that your position makes God better than the Reformed position, but no matter how you slice it, a man's salvation has been foreordained if not by God's own sovereign will, then by his infinite foreknowledge.

The Reformed position is that nobody knows why God picks one man for salvation and not another. I personally disagree with the Westminster Confession when they say that God's foreknowledge has nothing to do with it. I can't make that call. It is God's own sovereign will that determines the state of our salvation and his alone.

So the problem is that you seem to call a God who leaves our salvation in the hands of Fate a "Good" God, but the God who secures our salvation solely by his own divine and perfect choice and leaves nothing to chance an "evil" god.

I have come to peace with the Reformed position. Since I still have some concerns with the language of the Westminster Confession on the issue of foreknowledge and I am not comfortable with the idea of Limited Atonement as it is understood by most Calvinists, I suspect that I am not a Calvinist. But I am more than comfortable in the knowledge that those who are saved are saved because of a decision by God and not by a decision of their own. If they make that decision then it is because God changed their hearts. It is not a decision that a "natural" man would ever make. I think the scriptures make that perfectly clear.

Also, before you go off and accuse God of being "evil" because he passes over some people and gives his irresistible grace to others, I'd suggest you do a deep study into Romans chapters 8 and 9.

Now Paul may have been wrong, but if you believe that those chapters are inspired by God (as I do) then you can't help but come to the understanding that God does predestine the elect and he passes over everyone else.

It is a hard concept to come to peace with, but it is clearly set forth in scripture.

If you want, I will answer all your other points later. Such as your notion that a gift cannot be forced on someone. (Didn't God give you the gift of life? or how about the Gift of Faith? Once you have it, can you reject it? If so, then you never had it. Or whatever talents God bestowed upon you. You can refuse to use them but you still have them).

Maranatha

105 posted on 01/21/2014 2:32:41 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: P-Marlowe
No matter how you slice it, God makes the decision on whom he will create and whom he will allow into his presence.

So when Paul told the Christians in Rome that God "will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness" (Rom. 2:6–8) - he was lying?

107 posted on 01/21/2014 4:26:45 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: P-Marlowe
So what is the meaning of the verse that Paul is ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12)
108 posted on 01/21/2014 4:47:03 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: P-Marlowe

So when Paul tells us, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23), that really means nothing.


109 posted on 01/21/2014 5:27:33 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: P-Marlowe
So what is the meaning of the verse that Paul is ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12)

Let's spend some time on this one.

Working out my salvation - if Paul was predestined, there was no need to work. If ANYONE was predestined, there was no need to work. What is the meaning of this verse?

What is there to fear if one is predestined?

111 posted on 01/21/2014 5:41:46 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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