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To: P-Marlowe
No matter how you slice it, God makes the decision on whom he will create and whom he will allow into his presence.

So when Paul told the Christians in Rome that God "will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness" (Rom. 2:6–8) - he was lying?

107 posted on 01/21/2014 4:26:45 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive; Gamecock; HarleyD
(Rom. 2:6–8) - he was lying?

I am not going to trade scripture bricks with you or engage you in some kind of juvenile proof text exchange. I know all the proof texts for the Anti-Calvinist position because for 30 years that was my position. I think the thing that changed my position the most was when I began finding that on the Catholic threads many of the people who espoused the "Free Will" argument were really Pelagians. That they viewed Man's Free Will as somehow more sacrosanct than God's Sovereign will. That somehow everyone gets an equal chance at Salvation and everyone has within them the inherent power to basically save themselves.

I get from your posts that you somehow think that everyone somehow has some inherent ability to come to Christ without God working some kind of divine miracle in their life. And that in order to be fair to everyone, that God gives an equal share of some amount of "grace" and that the good people will respond favorably and the bad people will reject him.

But the scriptures make it clear that there are no good people. There are none righteous and that all of us are born with a nature that will reject God and based on that idea of Total Depravity that only those whom God changes will come to him.

But, I hear you say, THAT IS NOT FAIR!.

I think the whole Calvinist v. Arminian debate can be set forth succinctly. Here is the Calvinist position in perfect King James English:

Romans Chapter 9

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

And here is the Typical Arminian/Anti-Calvinist Position:

BUT, BUT, BUT, THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!

112 posted on 01/21/2014 7:34:58 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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