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To: crazylibertarian

In addition to the criticism above, namely that Roman Catholic countries are more likely to be politically corrupt, economically backwards, and, in Europe at least, socialist, the problem I have with libertarianism are much like the problems you & I both have with more extreme forms of objectivism (Randian), or anarcho-capitalism.

Objectivism is pretty much libertarianism part-and-parcel, and objectivists—to attempt to settle religious issues—simply start by ignoring them—asserting objective values exist, but we cannot talk about the how or why of them—assuming that religion in the public square in harmful, due to the potentials of conflict, and forced “altrusim...”. Hence true objectivists are atheists, and start with an assumption that only by having practical atheism in the public square, can we all get along... Even though Christian libertarians are not, obviously, objectivists...they seem to share some of those atheistic assumptions, namely that religion has no place in or around government. I will assert that that is impossible, and not even desirable.

Committed libertarians (and those are small “L” ones) also seem to overwhelmingly favor the legalization of homosexual marriage—asserting that marriage is not the business of the government. Unfortunately...since marriage involves custody of children, ownership of property, inheritance, trusts, contracts, legal divorce, & etc. among a plethora of traditional English law issues, not to mention our socialistic cocktail of government benefits, local, state and federal, than marriage does actually, IN THE REAL WORLD, involve government, in matters of law, rights, taxes, and benefits.

Marriage is, after all, a PUBLIC institution established by God, by which society (including government) recognizes an exclusive relationship between a man and a woman—providing a unique stable enclave for birthing and raising children.

Therefore marriage, and all matters involving public morality....ALWAYS involve government AND religion...and they cannot be, and never have been, neatly separated... despite libertarian wishes to the contrary. This is where I criticize libertarian ideals: There has never been a stable libertarian society....and there never will be, as public and private life are not easily (or even possibly) separated...and religion does, and always will have a legitimate place in the public square. Current day attempts to make secularism or scientism....both religious ideologies....official state dogma, actually prove my point.

Secular libertarian government is just not possible—as a peoples’ faith—or lack thereof—affects ever area of life, even, or especially, in social/political life.


19 posted on 01/10/2014 2:39:42 PM PST by AnalogReigns (Real life is ANALOG!)
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To: AnalogReigns

We’ve always had a king. Any society that allowed the people to rule themselves failed. Sure, in theory, it seems really nice, but IN THE REAL WORLD, every modern, successful nation has a king. No matter what they think, those silly colonists will fail because it’s never been done.

Yeah, that argument also failed.

Get out of my wallet, my church and my way.


35 posted on 01/13/2014 12:18:08 PM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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