Posted on 01/08/2014 1:11:34 PM PST by DouglasKC
Jesus Christ's Disciples Understood Him to Be the Creator
When the early followers of Christ say Jesus is the One through whom all things were created, they are clearly saying that Jesus is God.
The book of Hebrews speaks of the Son as the Being through whom God created the worlds (Hebrews 1:2) and who "sustains all things by his powerful word" (verse 3, NRSV). Only God is great enough to do such things.
John confirms that Jesus was the divine Word through whom God created the universe: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:3; see verses 1-3, 14).
Paul states quite clearly that "God ...created all things through Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:9). He elsewhere writes of Jesus: "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16). He adds in verse 17, "and in Him all things consist."
The Old Testament presents God alone as Creator of the universe (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 40:25-26, 28). When the early followers of Christ say Jesus is the One through whom all things were created, they are clearly saying that Jesus is God.
Jesus claimed to be all that God is, and the disciples believed and taught it. They understood that Jesus was "the express [exact] image of His [God's] person" (Hebrews 1:3) and "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15), and that "in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Colossians 2:9, NRSV).
They understood precisely who He was and still is from His own words and actions. There was no question in their minds. They had seen Him prove it time and time again. They would go to their martyrdom firm in this conviction.
I think this is the caucus thread MHGinTN is referring to, do you?
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3109673/posts
“Scriptural evidence of the divinity of Christ...”
I believe that it would be more correct to say that the passages are evidence of the early disciples belief in the divinity of Christ. Writings of persons who believed that Jesus was/is God is not evidence of actual divinity.
That's a good point. I guess it depends on whether or one believes in the veracity of the scripture...in other words, did God cause this testimony to be preserved to prove the divinity of Jesus? I believe so.
In past threads you've argued that Jesus is one of three gods in a godhead. I was wondering which sect you post for in order to get 'caucus' protection for what may be coming on this next thread from you.
Check his FR personal page.
Isn’t FR an interesting and eclectic place?
Do you also believe that Jesus Christ is God as his disciples did?
And, if John 1:18 is to be understood in a straightforward manner, then the pre-incarnate Jesus walked through Eden in the cool of the afternoon to confront our federal headship about a problem...one that would require Jesus’ suffering many years from then. Of course, this is all part of a well-designed plan to display the incredible mercy and grace of Jehovah. Quite a story line.
The UCG does not believe the Holy Spirit is a “person,” so they’re polytheism is with just the Father and the Son as two separate divine entities. They also teach that faithful members of the UCG will become “God” too, since, they claim, the word “God” is a family name, and that God is reproducing after the “God kind” for new “divine” children.
Your beliefs may not go far enough since Christ instituted the Sacraments too.
Does your church have any of those Sacraments? I doubt it.
(Isn't accusing someone else's post, which wasn't inflammatory & didn't get deleted, itself "inflammatory?")
Thanks for posting that scripture...fantastic.
Yes, he did institute the symbols of bread and wine at Passover and commanded that they be observed, along with footwashing, on Passover as show in all 4 gospel accounts of the last Passover he observed with his disciples before his death.
Does your church have any of those Sacraments? I doubt it.
Well, the church of God in the bible did partake in footwashing and the bread and wine ceremony on Passover and so the members of the church do as Christ commanded.
Isn’t FR an interesting and eclectic place?
A motley mix of sound people and raving heretics. One's discernment skills are sharpened here.
Hi Lee...thanks for your contribution to the thread and thank you for the link to my profile page!
I was pointing him to a place he could get an answer to his question.
Do you also believe that Jesus Christ is God as his disciples did?
I think that question is carefully worded. Let me guess -- "Constantine and the Council of Nicea screwed everything up", right?
How do you want me to word it? :-)
Jesus is God? Yup.
Jesus is the God of the old testament? Yup.
When we refer to Jesus Christ, we're talking about God himself? Yup.
That's what scripture teaches and I agree with that. Do you?
The UCG believes that Jesus is God. It’s just that, they think that they will be too. From Herbert Armstrong:
“By a resurrection, we become born God personages — personages just as our God the Father and Christ the Son! We shall have the entire universe put beneath our feet (Hebrews 2:8).” (Herbert Armstrong, The Plain Truth (September 1980): 40)
From the UCG website:
“Above these in the spirit realm is the angelic kingdom. And above all is the God Kingdom. God intends to raise man from the human kingdom, over the angelic kingdom, to the God Kingdom—the Kingdom of God. Indeed, in an ultimate sense, the Kingdom of God is synonymous with the ruling family of God, all members of which will share the full nature of God.”
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/what-your-destiny/life-gods-family/
They believe that they will “join” the ‘God family,” because the name “God” is a common noun, referring to many different people. Thus, “God”, according to them, or the “family” anyway, is reproducing new God Personages who will “join” the family. In other words, they believe the Godhead is open. Though, they make the Holy Spirit a “force” rather than a person.
“Now what could that mean? Well let’s tear it apart. If you’re filled up to all the fullness of God and your family’s last name is now God, in other words you are named a part of God’s family, well that can only mean that you can become a literal son or daughter of God, a full fledged member of His family, a divine spirit being like God in His eternal family.”
More:
“Your Bible shows that people were created according to the God kind, to be a part of God’s spiritual family. Now this may seem astonishing to you, that God is in fact reproducing spiritual children after His kind through humanity.”
http://www.ucg.org/beyond-today-program/doctrinal-beliefs/family-destiny
Some more, to help you untangle the web of UCG teaching.
“...the one God is a family, presently consisting of God the Father and God the Son, Jesus Christ. And God is in the process of adding to the divine family multitudes of others - eventually all human beings who are willing and who faithfully choose to follow God’s way...the Father and Jesus Christ are both God...The real message in these pronouncements is that there is no other God apart from the true God’that is, outside the God family now consisting of two divine Beings, the Father and the Son. In short, the God family alone is God...the true God means the one God family to which others will yet be added.”
From http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/do-some-verses-deny-divine-family/
More:
“Trinitarians would argue that this is because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one triune being. But the true explanation is that the one God is the one God ‘family.’” (From same link as above)
The UCG on the Holy Spirit:
“...the Holy Spirit is the very nature, presence and expression of God’s power actively working in His servants...the very essence and life force through which the Father begets human beings as His spiritual children...The Holy Spirit is spoken of in many ways that demonstrate that it is not a divine person.”
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/holy-spirit-person/
You can find a summary of UCG’s beliefs, as well as footnotes STRAIGHT from the UCG’s website, from the helpful folks at CARM:
Christ instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper.
So what about Baptism?
When did he breathe on the Apostles, giving them the Holy Spirit and giving them power to forgive sins?
We all know that Confirmation is connected with the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, so do you have Confirmation?
What about the Anointing of the Sick? Jesus healed a lot of people through prayer and touch.
When is the Sacrament of Marriage edified by Christ? Think of the Wedding of Cana.
When did he ordain the Apostles, thus instituting the Sacrament of Holy Orders?
“Christ instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper.”
To help you translate his answer. The UCG does not believe in the Eucharist at the Last Supper, in any sense, nor even in a Lord’s Supper. They believe that the “Lord’s Supper” is in fact the Passover, which is celebrated once annually. This they believe, despite the fact that it was actually, hsitorically, celebrated everyday:
“I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table, which you now look upon and of which you last night were made participants. You ought to know that you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the Blood of Christ” (Augustine, Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
The UCG teaches that we are bound to the Jewish feast days, a total of 7 per year:
“We believe in the commanded observance of the seven annual Holy Days given to ancient Israel by God and kept by Jesus Christ, the apostles and the New Testament Church.”
http://www.ucg.org/fundamental-beliefs-info/
“So what about Baptism?”
The UCG believes that baptism is through immersion and is necessary for salvation, and that the Holy Spirit is transmitted through the laying on of hands by UCG’s ministers. IOW, if you are not baptized and have hands laid on you by the UCG, you are not in “God’s Family.”
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.