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To: annalex

“To see what the effect of dropping most of the exorcism prayers at baptism was, let us ask ourselves this question: “Is a man baptized after 1969 more likely or less likely to revert to godlessness at some point in his life, compared to the man baptized prior to 1969?”

You gotta be joking?

The sacraments function “ex opera operato”. Baptism removes the stain of original sin. The normal form is through water and the Trinitarian formula. There is NO stain or sin left and no more or less sanctifying grace given. We are all left with concupiscence but no other incantations can change how we use the grace given.(ex opere operantis)

This statement begs the question, “Do you trust the new rite?”


23 posted on 01/08/2014 7:45:34 AM PST by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: ThomasMore; Kolokotronis
You gotta be joking?

First, I proposed an empirical study. The answer could be "no difference". Where do you see anything funny?

But I believe that while the Novus Ordo rites (as well as 1969 baptism rite) are valid sacraments, this should not be an argument for Protestant style reductionism. As soon as a catechumen is baptized and reaches age of reason, deadly struggle begins between him and the Satanic forces. This is how the same source describes it:

The Grace of God protects man. He must, however, invoke God's help. Constant prayer and fasting, devoted meditation, regular Bible reading, following the two great commandments of God (love of God and love of neighbor) are the weapons of the Christian against temptation from demons. The inclination of the individual toward sinful desires, the so called consupisentia [sic], is not sin in itself; it is the weakness which needs protection; it is weakness which evil spirits try to exploit.

This is from an Orthodox site, but I don't see any difference on that with Catholicism. So, yes, I firmly believe that we should employ every weapon the Holy Church proposes for our salvation: fasting and prayer, and especially every kind of prayer of our Church for our soul.

The same of course applies to any rite, not just baptismal rite. While grace falls on everyone, it is the disposition of the soul, that is strengthened by much prayer and fasting, that allows the saving grace to work in us.

34 posted on 01/08/2014 5:11:21 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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