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To: Mercat
“Our Lady was human” and so we talk about her. There isn’t enough conversation about our lady. I struggled for a long time with the last words of Jesus, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” Even after I learned that it is the first line of Psalm 22 which ends, “he has done it.” Jesus was also human and that was perhaps his greatest gift. Mary is the new Eve and she embraced the cross. I can’t go through any event, even a happy one, without a negative thought. I was born with original sin and she was not but she was human and the devil hates her. So I’m okay with what Francis said. He does stir things up doesn’t he? Makes us have to think.

Many good points - especially the last sentence - far too many will accept what is told them and not bother to question. I like what Glenn Beck says - question boldly; even the existence of God. Because God will stand up to the most intense scrutiny - numerous atheists have been converted by what they learned while trying to disprove His existence.

I wondered much about Jesus' cry, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.”. My personal belief is that this was the first time that He had tasted/experienced sin. The same sin which separates us from the Father also separated Him from the Father. He had probably not gone a second of His existence without the Presence of the Father ever so clear and suddenly the connection was broken - that probably anguished Him more than the physical torture.

Do you have another slant on it? I'd like to hear it if you do, to add some more fodder for me to mull over.

57 posted on 01/04/2014 3:19:28 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb

I have read that the Hebrews often referenced an entire psalm by quoting only the first line. This was a prophetic psalm but I do like your insight that it was the experience of sin. Jesus had to let go of everything to win our salvation and He did take on all our sins. The entire Passion is a series of loss for him. The only apostle who might have been close to being his intellectual equal betrays him, his faith community condemns him, his best friend denies him, his government shrugs and turns him over to be crucified. And that’s just the psychological and emotional loss. The scourging was enough to kill him. The crown of thorns was humiliation. At some point in there his bodily functions would have failed him subjecting him to further humiliation. He had to meet his mother and know that she was suffering with him.


58 posted on 01/04/2014 3:32:22 AM PST by Mercat
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To: trebb
I wondered much about Jesus' cry, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.”. My personal belief is that this was the first time that He had tasted/experienced sin. The same sin which separates us from the Father also separated Him from the Father.

This statement manifests the consequence of Judgment. Jesus Christ was perfectly Holy. All sins of humanity were imputed to Him on the Cross and they were Judged in His soul. The consequence of that Judgment, was a spiritual death, a state of existence involving separation.

When He was separated, that was the spiritual death required of a Perfect Sacrifice to redemptively atone for the sins of all humanity, propitiating God's wrath, thereby completing the payment for sin.

Good and evil are not so addressed at the Cross.

It should also be noted that his address to Mary occurred after the Judgment. That means, when He addressed His mother in His humanity, he provided her an opportunity to observe Him on the Cross, as her son. This didn;t judge her errors or sins in how she perceived Jesus Christ, but gave her the opportunity to return to judge herself and confess and turn back to God through faith in what He had just provided on the Cross.

The only reason the RCC ever paid so much devotion to Mary was their policy to meet other religions half way. Most of the world at that time worshiped the Mother and Child as worshiped in Babylon, a purely pagan system of worship.

Mary was just as much in need of salvation as any other human being since Adam.

74 posted on 01/04/2014 4:24:01 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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